Why Selling Seo Services Is Cheating, SEO service providers don't know Options

[acerview54]

What percentage of business websites actually look to the greater consumer public or multi-national markets for their business and how effective is Search Engine Optimization (SEO) marketing for them?

Lets have a look why businesses have a website:
< The peacock – look at my lovely feathers; an online, accessible, marketing brochure for new business contacts, the company will supply them with the URL
< The Octopus - A business and client wide area intranet for business critical processes
< The Elephant - A presence to impress and educate existing clients in the complete business offering
< The Sheep – everyone has a web-presence today
< The Venus-Fly-Trap - A marketing tool to develop additional business through online marketing
Only in the final case (The Venus-Fly-Trap) will it be necessary for potential clients to ‘find’ a site on the Internet, as the alternatives will locate the site through other means, which brings us to the second question; how effective is SEO for Small and Medium Enterprises (SME)?

In my opinion, “Most companies do not need exposure to a global or even a national audience�, and as such do not necessarily need to be well located in the major search engines. I will go into the discrepancies of this statement below.

Meanwhile lets have a look at the logic behind the statement that in essence states that spending marketing cash on the large search engines is a not an efficient usage of resources and does not give a reasonable return on investment (ROI).

The reality of business is that most companies in the world are Small or Medium Enterprises (SMEs). In fact across every business sector most businesses fit within the SME sector. In addition, in the USA only 10% of businesses even trade outside of their immediate resident state.

SMEs need to be divided for marketing purposes in to Business to Consumer (B2C) and Business-to-Business (B2B), as there are very clear differences in the way they need to market. In the discussions below I am not entering in to the Internet advertising sphere, as this is a separate argument.

B2B
Firstly, a clear majority of small businesses are focused on B2B markets and are not looking to attract large numbers of Internet users but small, specialized groups of potential clients to their ‘Venus-Fly Trap�. The Internet allows them to gain an additional channel to new clients in targeted additional markets, only in this case of attracting additional clients from new markets, is the Internet relevant as a low-cost marketing tool. A great placement, if it was possible, in a major search engine may aid, or even, hinder this process.

The most cost-efficient and effective means for these companies to market on the Internet is to ensure that they rank well in the sector-relevant trade directories. These can be commercial, associations, journals or even trade exhibitions, each sector offers numerous sources and most allow improvement of a ranking for a price. A secondary advantage of this methodology is that the more links, and the importance of the links, the better placement a site will obtain in Google. To find and ensure listing in these sites is a hard-slog but rewarding, I should know it is my area of specialty.

B2C
B2C companies include the retail sector and many service companies, law firms, plumbers etc. These SMEs in the B2C sector are looking to the wider public for business but then, by the very nature that they are small or medium, almost invariably within a restricted geographic area. If they want to try to market product to larger markets then eBay and similar ‘Online Shopping Malls’ will suite them just as well, at lower costs but only if they build a fulfillment channel.

Service orientated offerings are even more restricted geographically, I cannot see anything better, as regards ROI, than to ensure listings in localized service directories or respected trade associations, with links to well-positioned websites that ensure the client fully understands the professionalism and scope of a service.

Believing in SEO
A fundamental problem all businesses now have is a belief barrier in SEO. Every web-marketing company seems to claim to be able to, ‘Get you to the top of a search-engine’ and to be, ‘the best SEO practitioners on the planet�. There must be 500 who claim the title just in the UK. This is patently untrue as the numbers just do not stack-up and in my opinion many businesses can understand the fragility of the pitch and will increasingly shy away from the whole Internet marketing sector as a result.

To Conclude
It is my belief that in many cases the selling of SEO services to many businesses is dishonest, and worse, leaves the whole web-building and marketing industry, the good and the bad, open to distrust and ultimately real damage. It is totally necessary to complete some Internet marketing for every business website, but rather than take the easy and lazy option, every marketing campaign must suite the real target market of a client and be individualized to their targets. As someone who has been deeply involved in technology for many years, I know there is no technological solution but ONLY experience and hard work.

As an industry we have to get our act together and behave in an honest and honorable manner. Selling SEO services to a small manufacturer of ball bearings in Birmingham is close to fraudulent and trading on his ignorance and gullibility. Selling a service that will expose a client’s website to his real potential market is much more difficult, particularly as it is extremely difficult to show the real results quickly.

An Internet site is somewhere between PR and brochure marketing and should be explained to clients as such. Neither will necessarily bring direct sales but is designed to aid in the branding and positioning of a company to its potential customer base. Lets get real, get honest and treat our customers with the respect they deserve and stop the SEO.

Joel

[URL Removed.]

This post has been edited by Haystack: Oct 6 2004, 02:04 AM

[OldWelshGuy]

This post just goes to prove the complete level of ignorance that surrounds SEO as an industry. For a while now we have tried to move away from the tag of SEO, as people like this poster above, think it is ONLY about rankings, (how sad).

Internet Marketing, (because let's face it, that is exactly what we do) Goes far beyond what this chap above claims it to be. Initially, during the dotcom era, companies sprang up that made huge amounts of money, and charged huge amounts for their services. ALL they did was get the site name in front of the client by methods fair or fowl.

As the internet has grown, just like the snake oil salesman of the Wild West, these companies are now the exception rather than the rule.

What does a good quality SEO/SEM (search engine Marketer) do for a client?

1) they will research the clients business to get a better understanding of it.

2) they will then research the words that people are searching for to find companies that are similar and/or in competition with the client.

3) They will view the existing site, evaluating it for usability, sales conversion practicality, and in general quality.

4) They will then ensure that the keywords found are delivering traffic to the pages that make that traffic most likely to become customers. Not just traffic, but highly qualified traffic. If suitable pages do not exist then they will be created. Also extra pages to ensure the maximum possibility of conversion of traffic to client.

5) They will then research the web, finding trade and generic directories that are likely to bring in qualified traffic, as well as site links from associated trade or other sites.

6) They will in effect find your clients, and deliver your site to them.

Imagine how good it would be, if when someone decided they were going to plan their wedding, at the moment they sat down to begin planning, heart racing with excitement, dreaming of walking into the church long lace veil blowing in the warm summer breeze. Imagine at that moment in time, thrusting a brochure for your wedding dress company right into her waiting hands. Better still, imagine having that brochure opened to a picture of someone wearing a long lace veil that is blowing in the summer breeze. How well would that market your company?

Such is the power of good Search Engine Marketing.

One thing that the chap above was right in saying though. Not all SEO's are the same, just as there are good and bad in all walks of life, the internet is no different.

[OldWelshGuy]

<Added as for "Selling SEO services to a small manufacturer of ball bearings in Birmingham is close to fraudulent and trading on his ignorance and gullibility".

http://www.dunloptyres.co.uk/site/dunlop/h...ory/index.shtml A small tyre manufacturer in Birmingham.

http://www.jmk.su.se/global02/jessica/history/ A small furniture company in Sweden.

http://www.ford.com/en/heritage/history/default.htm A small car manufacturer in Detroit.

http://www.dynaroll.com/bearing-manufacturer/ or a ball bearing company founded in 1988 who have risen to become one of the worlds largest manufacturers of mini bearings?

I could go on, but I think you all get the picture.

The internet marketing industry is no different to the traditional advertising industry. All it needs to work are three elements.

Right message/product

Right people

Right time.

Those three key elements combined make up the perfect marketing campaign.

[Bill Slawski]

I like the way you're thinking OWG, but I think we should add that other basic of marketing - place.

acerview54 wrote this:

In my opinion, “Most companies do not need exposure to a global or even a national audience�, and as such do not necessarily need to be well located in the major search engines. I will go into the discrepancies of this statement below.

I should be able to turn to a search engine and find the restaurtants near me, look at their menus, and decide what I want for lunch. I should be able to find the small specialty shops, and see the service and attitude that distinquishes them from the Big Box stores that often have better selection but worse service.

Many online businesses do cater to a national or international market. But even member of a local market can be well served by bothering to learn enough SEO, or have someone help them with enough SEO, so that people can find them, and have a sense of what they offer.

I find it sad that when I put my city, state, and the word restaurant into Google, I only get the website of one local restaurant in the top 100 results.

[OldWelshGuy]

Agreed 100% Bill,

Local searching is coming more and more to the fore. Plus the term 'local' is relative. Local to a fast food delivery might be a couple of miles. Local to a haulage company might mean there and back same day. As the web is getting bigger, search is actually shrinking IMO.

People are now turning to the web to source non essential services (we will always need yellow pages type printed directories for when a water pipe bursts etc). I use the web to source almost everything. We were looking for some replacement windows and doors for our new house. We searched online, then opened up the local paper for adverts with web addresses, then looked at the websites of these local companies. The companies without a website did not even make the shortlist. Sad, but true. The order value is going to be around £11,000, I wonder how many others shop this way, by looking at ads and shortlisting by website availability?

[Randy]

I wonder how many others shop this way, by looking at ads and shortlisting by website availability?

I do. Often.

Around here, I've been buying and rehabbing older, usually historically significant houses for the last few years, simply because it's something I like to do. I usually end up doing 90% of the work myself. Like I said, I enjoy it. The other 10% is farmed out to skilled tradesmen who I happen to know.

Almost without exception, every single supply order has at least been researched online. Most have also been ordered online so that the only thing I had to do was sign some paperwork at delivery time.

In fact, I've been able to get some pretty good deals on lots of stuff because if I was ordering a lot of stuff from the "local" Home Depot (20 miles away) or "local" Lowe's Building Center (35 miles away) or "local"(2 blocks away) Chic Lumber, I've been able to show them where I could get certain items I wanted for less elsewhere. Online.

Generally speaking, they'll all cut me a deal to match the lower price since I'm ordering lots of stuff at a time. Sure it's only 5-10%, but when your total spend on supplies averages between 50k and 100k per project it's a significant savings.

My intuition tells me that Search and having a web site that can be found is going to become more and more important.

Most of the Buyers today are those who weren't even exposed to computers until they were in their 20's. Certainly most didn't make use of the Internet until their 20's or more. As the Gen X'ers continue to grow up and become of the age to spend more, I would be willing to bet that a lot more people will be sourcing almost anything and everything via Search.

Think on that last comment for a bit. The generation coming up has been exposed to the 'Net their entire lives. They know how to use it to their benefit. Heck, they've used it to help with their homework throughout many years of schooling in the vast majority of cases. The only component they're missing currently is the Spending Power.

Everytime I bring this tiny generational fact up in a presentation to small business owners, you can literally see the old light bulb switch on over their head. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by Randy: Oct 6 2004, 07:44 AM

[leadegroot]

My most recent client is a small local business who had a site made for them last year which was not showing in any of the search engines (ok, it was showing in Sensis, purely because they have a yellowpages entry. i dont think that is really all that impressive.)
and why? Because they have absolutely no incoming links. None.
The only reason I knew about them was because I had seen the url on their shopfront and then, when coincidentally doing a search for businesses on the net in their suburb suddenly realised I hadn't found them.
You can't tell me these people can't benefit from my services - at the moment their website gives them no return on their investment whatsoever, because no one can find it at all.
I'll give them external links, remove the dreadful javascript navigation and ensure they rank for their products.
This won't help them?
pshaw!

[OldWelshGuy]

I know tht this topic was initially a drive by spammer, but it just got me thinking, and I thought it would help debate a few points. I am glad we did now.

I am not decrying the original poster (even though it is spam) I just thought it Ironic that someone who was on the inside promoting themselves, cdid not know how internet marketing had matured into something way more than pop ups, fly ins, and spam in general.

Right behind my desk is a set of directories yellow pages etc. I rarely use them. Even if I am looking for a telephone number I go internet first, as I am sat right here.

What Randy says is so true. The next gen of available income spenders are going to be totally web savvy. With their pop up blockers, spam filters and all sorts, they are going to know how to find stuff, and, as importantly how not to find stuff or have it thrown in their faces.

These certainly are interesting times (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[copywriter]

As an industry we have to get our act together and behave in an honest and honorable manner. Selling SEO services to a small manufacturer of ball bearings in Birmingham is close to fraudulent and trading on his ignorance and gullibility. Selling a service that will expose a client’s website to his real potential market is much more difficult, particularly as it is extremely difficult to show the real results quickly.

Oh give me a break! That small manufacturer in Birmingham can reach a global market bringing in millions more dollars in profit by selling to other companies around the world. In fact, most manufacturers depend heavily on national and international sales to survive. Just how many companies within the local Birmingham area who need to purchase ball bearings do you think there will be? Certainly not enough to support a factory and its employees.

As someone who has worked with marketing for many small manufacturers, I can tell you firsthand that local business is not what keeps them in the black.

I find myself in disagreement with virtually everything you've said, Ace.

While there are (unfortunately) many unethical SEO companies online, there certainly are many more still who are genuinely concerned for their clients well being.

[mcanerin]

About 2 weeks ago I got a phone call from the CFO of one of my small clients.

They had opted for my least expensive SEO package because they are a small alfalfa company (they make alfalfa cubes that are used to feed horses, cattle and so forth) and wanted to extend their reach to the local farmers, most of which don't have time to "go into town" and usually do their shopping by computer and phone.

The internet is an essential part of the modern small farm around here. BTW, it's also pretty important to people who are disabled and can't move around much - be a shame if the only thing they could find on the 'net were big multinationals selling bulk ball bearings rather than local social services and user groups. I also "fraudulently" perform SEO work for local charities, as well, and I know OWG, bwelford and others around here do, too.

So, anyway, I did a minimal optimization on highly non-competitive phrases like "lethbridge alfafa cube" and "welling alfalfa cube" and so forth. Just enough to get them to number one for these phrases. Interestingly, the market is so small that they are also top 1-5 for almost all their products without the placename ("alfalfa cube ") - ie worldwide.

The CFO was extremely happy because their business has increased dramatically not only from local farmers, but from orders as far away as the middle east and asia. He said it was the best money he'd ever spent and offered to give me a written testimonial.

Good thing I didn't decide they didn't need optimization and talk them out of it because they were "local" and "small". Those new employees they have hired are probably glad I went ahead to "defraud" the company by (horrors!) letting people know what they had to offer on the internet.

I'm sure the farmers who now are able to find the company and thus save time and money are happy. And even though the original SEO work was intended only for a local market, I'm sure the international customers were happy that they now have access to high quality product that otherwise would have been totally out of their reach.

Think local, act global. I suggest the author get with the..... 80's? A few years behind the times, I think. This type of narrow minded, parochial attitude is not only bad for the industry, but more importantly, bad for the clients and visitors. There is a reason why both Yahoo and Google are rolling out "Local Search" right now.

When I plan a business (or personal, for that matter) trip to another area I usually use the internet to research and locate local suppliers, resources, attractions and services. I've also done that every time I've moved to a new place in the past few years.

I should know it is my area of specialty

I'd suggest that anyone professing to be a specialist would be expected to keep up with current events in their industry. The search engines disagree with this article, my clients disagree with this article, and I suspect the rest of the SEO community disagrees, as well. I know I certainly do.

Ian

This post has been edited by mcanerin: Oct 6 2004, 09:44 AM

[SearchRank]

An Internet site is somewhere between PR and brochure marketing and should be explained to clients as such.

Tell that to all the e-commerce sites out there whose sole existence is not a typical brick and mortar shop but the Internet. Can someone say Amazon?

[Jbrookins]

I couldn't finish...I was getting angry at the clear belief that small companies should show a complete lack of ambition. Sounds more like an essay on the greatness of the caste system than any sort of business acumen (you shouldn't think bigger than you are!)

Since I can't see the link he posted though, I can't tell how that horribly false view works into his business model though.

[Hyperformance]

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/appl.gif) OWG - You are "Right On"

Ignorance IS what we fight. SEO in my company actually accounts for about 40-45% of our work. We are Internet and Website Marketers, SEO is an important piece of the pie without any doubt, but it is not a complete (success) solution on it's own.

Localization is long overdue, web surfer's are getting smarter - They no longer type in "Harley Davidson", they search for "Harley Davidson Illinois" or "Harley Davidson Chicago" - and your small business could be right on top of this list! - even if you're a resturaunt or dry cleaner!

My daughters even looked for their Prom dresses online - they don't use the yellow pages... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)

Great Post!