Hyphenated Domain Names, Do hyphens help SEO? Options

[seafoam]

Some time ago it seemed like one had to seperate keywords in a domain name for them to be noticed by the search engines. More recently I would say there has been a decline in the practise of hyphenating domain names, and I also notice that Google SERPs highlights words in unhyphenated domains and filenames.

What is the current thinking on this? Will an unhypenated domain name rank as well as an hyphenated domain?

[Jill]

The highlighting thing simply means that their highlighter can recognize individual words, but it doesn't necessarily mean that their algo does.

They are completely different entities. (And probably there to throw people off.)

[magellan]

That's what I thought but from some recent testing it looks like Google can take part of the URL and rank on that only.

Example:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UT...yUK%7CcountryGB

What does everyone else think?

[jason_and_kelly]

But *why* would G care if there were hyphens or not? More importantly why would they treat the two differently? What does that have to do with the human experience? And do we have anything more than speculation on non-hyphenated keywords being used in the algo or not?

It makes no sense for G to do this highlighting to "throw people off" with one way of typing a URL being treated differently than another.

[Jill]

Their algorithm doesn't see twowords together as its distinct words. I've heard it directly from Craig Silverstein at Google.

He specifically stated that you need to separate words with either a space (not in a url of course) or a hyphen.

Not an underscore, and not runtogetherlikethis.

[Scottie]

But *why* would G care if there were hyphens or not? More importantly why would they treat the two differently?

It's about parsing...

thisismydomain is a single word to a spider while this-is-my-domain looks like this is my domain to a spider.

"Stemming" is when they DO try and parse words from run together words or variations of words, but it's mostly theory as to whether or not they are stemming and whether or not they CAN do it properly.

When you see the words that match your query highlighted in a URL, it shows they are able to identify that those letters match your query... that's about it.

[jason_and_kelly]

""Stemming" is when they DO try and parse words from run together words or variations of words, but it's mostly theory as to whether or not they are stemming and whether or not they CAN do it properly."

A quick experiemnt by me leads me to believe they are not doing this. For example do a search for a "KEYWORD" then search again for "xKEYWORDx" and G will not be able to see the KEYWORD in the second search.

Oh well...

[chrishirst]

some searches that (sort of) show the difference between the text bolding and the url bolding, then hyphen and underscore
I've used this 'cos the same site is in all the first 5.

santaclaus, santa claus, santa, claus & santa-claus. and then there is santa_claus

Probably proves diddly squat BTW, but it's entertaining for about 3 seconds (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Michael]

I was headed to the forum to post something on this exact topic when I saw this thread.

While I have not tested it statisically, increasingly I find that the keywords found within a URL are significantly impacting the SERPs. If memory serves I used to hear from HR members that is was not the case and that there was no relevance given to domain names.

How's my memory? Have the SE's changed their minds on this practice? Has anyone else had similar experiences?

[Jill]

I can't speak for all the forum members, but my feeling on this topic hasn't changed at all. Here it is...

Keyword rich domain names are only important if people link to your page by URL. Then you get the benefit of keyword rich anchor text in your link.

Other than that, I don't feel there is much (if any) benefit. However, that reason above is a pretty good one, as you do often see links to URLs.

[Scottie]

I still say, not important.

Think like a search engine for a moment... what do keywords in the domain name tell you?

"I WANT TO RANK WELL SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS PHRASE."

While you might want to take that into account, do you see that the site that bought keyword-keyword-keyword.com should get a boost over the site that is businessname.com? Why should it?

[dannysullivan]

I remember when this issue first came up back in 2000 or so, when 64 character domain names became available. There was a run on registering names with hyphens, as if that would be the way to skyrocket to the top.

Over the years, I've consistently looked at various rumors when someone says they had to have a hyphenated domain name or URL. They'd point to listings that showed how other people had them. That was the proof.

The reality is that I almost always could find an exception. Heck, search for books on Google. Amazon, B&N, Powell's, Bartleby, Scholastic, Border and O'Reilly all make it without the word books in their URL, hyphen or not.

Seeing hyphens in the URL tells you nothing, other than that you almost certainly are looking at a page that's been optimized in some other way -- and that means there's a good chance other optimization factors may play a bigger role.

If it makes sense to have a domain name that contains the terms you want to be found for, go for it -- makes sense from a human/brand point of view. Sell running shoes and brand new shop? Sure, get runningshoes.com, if you could do it. And get running-shoes.com to help ensure that others don't grab it to confused potential consumers. But I'd still go with the non-hyphenated domain as my main one, the one that will be most memorable to people.

Making a file? Well sure, call your file runningshoes.com/mens-running-shoes.html if you want. Maybe it will help you a bit, maybe. More likely, the nice listing of words in the URL and not too many hyphens may help people attract a click.

[Ron Carnell]

IMO, parsable keywords in a domain name do provide a non-trivial boost in rankings. It's not a silver bullet, and a whole lot of other factors can easily beat it, but it nonetheless helps. My rule of thumb is, if something doesn't hurt, then I can use any little bit of help I can find.

However, I also believe that hyphens in a domain name DO hurt, even if the harm isn't necessarily in search engine rankings.

Branding is just a synonym for word-of-mouth, and if a domain name doesn't roll off your tongue easily, if it has to be explained on the phone or radio, then you're just exchanging short-term SE benefits for long-term branding benefits. You're essentially winning a battle (maybe) at the risk of losing the war. Not all web sites need concern themselves with branding, of course, but if you expect yours to survive more than six months, I think you should be concerned with it. Avoid hyphens or anything else than can't be verbally exchanged easily (was that studio8.com or studioeight.com?).

Hyphens in an URL but not part of the domain name are less cut and dried, in my opinion. I think they, too, help boost rankings, but the amount of help leans much closer to trivial. Still, every little bit of help is good, I suppose. Can they hurt? I think that depends on your audience. Some will think it looks spammy, some won't. It would have to be a judgment call. FWIW, I can't recall ever using a hyphen in naming a folder or page, though I DO use single-term keywords quite frequently. Those, after all, are generally the ones that need every little bit of help they can get. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BrianR]

Agreed that multiple hyphenated domains or file names look spammy. But, it should be said that hyphens can aid readability considerably in some cases - eg. it is easier for users to read www.alfalfa-advertising.com than www.alfalfaadvertising.com

BrianR

[battman]

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif) I have been very interested in this for quite sometime. I recently noticed this "Highlighting" of matched queries. Especially the ability of G to highlight matched key words in both the text and URL is very interesting. When did G adopt this feature?

Scottie mentioned: "When you see the words that match your query highlighted in a URL, it shows they are able to identify that those letters match your query... that's about it".

How does the Highlighter work? Does it have it's own seperate algos? What would be the benefit if the Highlight was of no purpose? The fact that IMVHO it is highlighted seems to hint at some weight, possibly quite light, to SERP. Maybe all other things being equal then the SERP with a matched URL has a slight boost in rankings.

Several members seemed to indicate belief to the "some value" school so the issue is not nesessily black and white, either no value up to silver bullet status.

As competitve as business is today and with the cost of PPC increasing any slight edge might be the "straw that breaks the camels back". Whooops, I mean puts a site in the "Highlights" or at least above the page break.

Just a tad bit of 'suckup": I went to Jill's Tampa SEO seminar last Novemeber at which Scottie also presented. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Thanks guys.

battman@batteryweb.com