 Online Market Research, taking a few steps back |
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 Jul 13 2004, 05:07 PM
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#1
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 HR 4  Group: Active Members Posts: 138 Joined: 27-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 1,766  |
The more I develop web sites, the more I realize that I'm in the marketing business, not design or programming business! I talk to people who know they want to well widgets but have no idea who to sell them to or where to look for customers.
I'll take the case of a recent inquiry - a wedding photographer wants to break into the national market. At first, I said "...but photographers are locally based, how can you do that?" Answer, "This is very high-end photography, people will pay to fly us to their location" I have to get around the fact that most wedding photography searches are locally based. In fact, I thought, I really should get inside the head of someone who has enough money to pay for this type of service. How would they search? Where are they hanging out online? Who ARE these people!! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) I know how to perform keyword research but do any of you have methods for more traditional market research for finding online audiences? |
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Jul 13 2004, 06:01 PM
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#2
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 Psycho Mom  Group: Admin Posts: 6,124 Joined: 21-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Columbia, SC Member No.: 3 |
QUOTE The more I develop web sites, the more I realize that I'm in the marketing business, not design or programming business! Isn't it amazing when that (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lightbulb.gif) flips on? You are definitely in the marketing business! Personally, I'd start with high end wedding sites and get a feel for what people are looking for these days. Find out if there are competitors for the national market and how they attract clients. To be blunt, your client can't build a reputation on the internet. In order to be that good that people will want to pay travel costs on top of photography fees, the reputation has to already be there. People like that get gigs when one high-end client passes the name on to the next high-end client and the wannabe high-end client hires them because the others did... You are targeting a niche where the design is going to be all-important and the search properties less so. These clients will not come from Google and pick a high end photographer based on a website, IMO. BUT, their business cards will be passed around at the functions they work and potential clients will visit their site to learn more about them. It has to be convincing. It has to be good enough to get links and recommendations from the top wedding sites (and their skill needs to match it!) Again, IMO, they should not look at search as much of a lead generator. Some, yes. But not enough to build a business on. Why not test some terms using AdWords? Run a small campaign with the keyword phrases you have in mind and see how they perform, how often they get clicked, which ones actually convert. Without that, you are shooting in the dark! |
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Jul 13 2004, 06:11 PM
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#3
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 High Rankings Advisor Group: Admin Posts: 29,201 Joined: 21-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 02:14 PM From: Ashland, MA Member No.: 2 |
Good points, Scottie! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jul 13 2004, 06:16 PM
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#4
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 Work is Fun  Group: Moderator Posts: 4,642 Joined: 31-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Neath, South Wales, UK Member No.: 110 |
Agree with all that Scottie says. You also have to drum it into your client that the web address needs to be on all his sample albums and materials. Many people in those circles would not lower themselves to be seen to be 'copying' they would rather find out the name of the photographer, then act surprised when someone says 'you have the same photographer as we had' (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) .
We had a client in Cardiff who gets flown all over the world to take wedding photos. The reputation goes before him. He has won many 'real' awards for photography, and is in such demand. I hope that your client is not a wanabee who has seen others doing it, and want's a piece of the action. One thing I will say, is that it must be written from a strong position. It is no use saying that he can do this or that it is possible for him to go here. The copy is going to have to be very powerfull. It must tell people that if you want this quality of work, you fly me, like it or not, there is no other way. It must be presented as if it is the absolute norm, other wise potential customers will spot weakness, and delay the decision. Like Scottie said, when that light comes on and you realise that you are not a designer, your an online marketer who can also design, it is a revelation. It also makes you realise just how much rests in your hands. OWG |
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Jul 13 2004, 06:34 PM
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#5
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HR 4 Group: Active Members Posts: 138 Joined: 27-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 1,766 |
These are great points - all, I'll print them out and make notes for an upcoming meeting.
Perhaps a who's who list of weddings in his portfolio might help, provided he has some high-end clients who are well known. OWG - he could be thinking "Hey I want to a high-end photographer" without the reputation. He did say that he knows the guy who shot JLo's wedding - who knows (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) In general though, do any of you have a set method of finding your target audience for online businesses? I know common sense will lead you to some but are there tools, checklists, resources? I'm also thinking of my gift basket business and a new site that we just opened that sells purses, etc... It's a totally different market every time! I have clients from pheasant hunters to scientists, to the lady who sells hand lotion to Steven Tyler - it's so much fun! But, learning all of these markets (online markets) is tough! Thanks!!! |
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Jul 13 2004, 06:42 PM
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#6
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 HR 6 Group: Active Members Posts: 887 Joined: 1-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 01:14 PM From: Near St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 1,507 |
Everything Scottie said, plus...
Please don't forget two things: ( 1 ) "Direct Sales" is not the only business model for a Website and ( 2 ) there are many, many other ways than search engines (pay per click or otherwise) to drive quality traffic to a site. A few thoughts on each... Yes, IMO you are absolutely on target to see if you can talk to some of your client's customers to find out what's important to them when hiring a Wedding photographer, plus how they would/could use the Website. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif) Pair this with a study of similar sites and I bet you'd gain some valuable insight that would help with setting up site structure! Depending on resources you could do focus groups, informal one on one interviews, etc. with the target audience. A lot of times, seems like the knee-jerk reaction is to expect a business site to be primarily a direct sales channel. As Scottie said, with this type of client chances of that working out are slim...very few will lay down that kind of $ (plus agree to air fair and expenses!) site unseen. Instead, I'd try really hard to have your client think of the site as a tool to help facilitate client relations (the selling, delivery, and/or photo production processes) rather than a see it as primarily a direct sales generator. With that mindset, other possibilities are more clear. On the subject of traffic, a couple of ideas to consider: Put URL on printed material: business cards, sales packet, packet/envelope with proofs/final photos, letterhead, fax cover, etc. Refer to online portfolio in traditional ads (Wedding publications, etc.), sales calls, as part of response to unsolicited inquiries, on material in the studio, etc. Anyway, my (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/penny.gif) |
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Jul 13 2004, 06:46 PM
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#7
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HR 6 Group: Active Members Posts: 887 Joined: 1-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 01:14 PM From: Near St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 1,507 |
QUOTE(BobetteKyle @ Jul 13 2004, 07:42 PM) Everything Scottie said, plus... While I was typing, so was everyone else. Guess I should amend this to "what we all said" instead of just Scottie! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif) |
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Jul 13 2004, 07:06 PM
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#8
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Psycho Mom Group: Admin Posts: 6,124 Joined: 21-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Columbia, SC Member No.: 3 |
Or just me is fine. I'll take credit for all these ideas. It's ok by me!
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Jul 13 2004, 10:34 PM
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#9
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HR 4 Group: Active Members Posts: 138 Joined: 27-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Temecula, CA Member No.: 1,766 |
Thanks all! I talked to him this evening to reschedule a meeting. He does not yet have the reputation to compete, I think, with the big names who are paid to fly to locations and get paid a hunk of money.
However, he does know that he'll get most business from referrals but wants his portfolio site to do its job should someone search on a specific location or photography style etc.. GREAT tips here, I swear this is High Rankings University HRU eh eh? (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Thanks!! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif) |
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Jul 13 2004, 10:47 PM
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#10
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High Rankings Advisor Group: Admin Posts: 29,201 Joined: 21-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 02:14 PM From: Ashland, MA Member No.: 2 |
No problem, Mida...leave your tuition in the bucket by the door...
(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 14 2004, 03:26 AM
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#11
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Work is Fun Group: Moderator Posts: 4,642 Joined: 31-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 03:14 PM From: Neath, South Wales, UK Member No.: 110 |
QUOTE(Jill @ Jul 13 2004, 11:47 PM) No problem, Mida...leave your tuition in the bucket by the door... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Jill you told me that was the OWG savings bucket! I been putting half my income into that for months (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/ranting.gif) |
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Jul 26 2004, 06:02 PM
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#12
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HR 6 Group: Active Members Posts: 887 Joined: 1-December 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 01:14 PM From: Near St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 1,507 |
QUOTE(OldWelshGuy @ Jul 14 2004, 04:26 AM) Jill you told me that was the OWG savings bucket! I been putting half my income into that for months (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/ranting.gif) (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) She told me it was the Internet Marketing investment bucket...projectphp and I were going to invest the OWG contributions in Google stock and split the profit at year end! That Jill's a stinker. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif) |
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Jul 26 2004, 10:17 PM
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#13
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High Rankings Advisor Group: Admin Posts: 29,201 Joined: 21-July 03 User's local time: Feb 9 2010, 02:14 PM From: Ashland, MA Member No.: 2 |
Oops...hopefully the rest of the mods who I told things to won't notice this thread...
(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif) |
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