If You Could Spam The Search Engines, and be sure to never get caught... Options

[Jill]

Would you do it?

You figure out a method to get top 10 rankings every time, but it would be considered spamming the engines, for whatever reason.

It's something that you could never get caught at (even if that doesn't sound possible, just play with me for purposes of this discussion).

No search engine would know, no competitor would no, heck even your client wouldn't have to know.

Would you do it?

[djonline]

The thrill I feel when I achieve top 10 rankings on the keywords I am coveting, using all friendly methods, which are appealing for my visitor (and aid in converting those visitors to customers), is such a rush (LOL, maybe I should get a life?).

If I used trickery to achieve the same results, not only would the sense of accomplishment be nill, but personally I do not think I could feel the pride I have for seeing my hard work pay off.

Not to mention, even though 'I should never get busted by the SE or competitors' for my trickery, I still think I'd feel the twinge of trepidition that someday my covers would be pulled and I don't think I could rest well.

Nothing is more sweet than seeing something I have analyzed, created with personality and put into fruition, achieve high rankings and attract visitors and customers.

Just my (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/penny.gif)

Julie

[Irony]

I certainly would not.

No SE would know... nobody would know. But I would know - and suffer from it. I even can see the way to persuade myself to do something of that kind.

Good balance of my soul is much more precious to me than any #1s I might have in life. As for the rest of the reasons - Julia puts it precisely, and I only have to say that I agree on it. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/appl.gif)

What's more to add? Once I tried to type one and the same word 6 times in a row -- and that was just horrible! My right hand got so stiff - I just could not type further. Some built-in protection, I suppose (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[powerofeyes]

Nice question Jill, ill leave my common sense decide whether the method I know is spam or not, If i feel that method doesnt affect the quality of the results I dont mind using it, I dont have any intention to use any bad methods but what is considered bad is decided by me not the search engine guidelines,

ill see who sets the rules whether the search engines or our own mind, Coming from a programming background I know the pain all those PHDs put into google algorithm, ill make sure I dont hurt any of those people,

Search engines say design your site for users but in SEO I dont think it is 100% successful especially in competitive fields, We just have to design both for users and for search engines if that site depends on search engine traffic,

It's something that you could never get caught

if the discussion says youll never get caught it can also mean that method be a legitimate one in many people's eyes, AFAIK I cannot find any tactic which escapes everyone's eyes, If a tactic is there like that it simply means it is not a bad tactic,

My 2 cents,

VIJAY,

[projectphp]

Ahh ethics, talk about a minefield!

Personally, I wouldn't. There is no "logical", well reasoned or clever reason. I just don't want to (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

In terms of ethical decision making, a lot of what I feel stems from my time working as a croupiere (I dealt cards) in a Casino. There, I saw all types of people flush their lives, their families lives and anyone near them's lives down the proverbial toilet. The morality of making a living in an area that feeds on what is essentially an addiction probably shapes a lot of what I think and do now.

I know there is no "right" answer to a question like this, particularly as it is hypothetical beyond the realms of possibility, and my response is a bit brown-nosy, but there it is.

So, I am voting "No" to proposition 764512 - would I spam if I was 100% guaranteed to "get away with it".

[tomsk]

For me I probaly would, it depends on how competive you are as a person my biggest frustration so far being new to seo is seeing rubbish unoptimized sites ahead off mine. I would be more inclined to stay away from the darkside if it were a level playing field!

Beg's the question if you find a suitcase of a £100000.00 in a feild same thing nobody knows never be found out etc. what to do?

[domokun]

I would, Im afraid, at least for a little while. Once I started to acheive the high rankings I think I'd begin to ween myself off the 'winning forumula' so that the pages would produce less and less spam.

[madams]

Jill

Would you do it?

What happened to your moral high ground.

I have, any many more who visit this place, have been totaly criticised for even sugesting this sort of practice, though most mentioned it out of ignorance.

The moderators line up behind you and the poor topic starter gets a digital gang-bang.

I know you will say your not sugesting that people do it but what is the purpose of the question.

Maybe you are compiling a list of those who would do it so you can take their "Smilies" away from them or something worse.

Nice question Jill

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

I certainly would not.

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I would, Im afraid

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif) No "smilies for you then.

[DennisG]

If I'm honest, I would. Sorry (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/Whip.gif)

[OldWelshGuy]

Hand on Heart I can say that I WOULD do it, for a short while, get bored, and leave the industry.

Anyone who says they would not do it is a little naive IMO (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) There is no one being hurt, other than those below you in the SERPs, and as they are not your clients why worry? If you worry about them then, you should worry about them now, and I certainly don't worry about the people who I am up against in business. You are acting in the best interests of your client THAT is your remit.

Best interests means that you do what is best for them. I don't stray into bad practices, as it exposes the client to risk. Increasing the business risk of a client is hardly acting in their best practice. We are talking about business decisions here, and a business decision is all about profit against risk, no risk = do it. I know I might have shocked some of you by posting this, but as this is a never gonna happen scenario, I thought I would answer it purely from a business POV.

I would do it (as I suspect most would but don't want to admit (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) ), but like I said, I know in my heart I would leave the industry as I would get incredibly bored with it very quickly. The whole thing for me is a game. It is a chess game with me on one side and my opponent on the other. Who is the opponent? NOT the search engines, but the other webmasters/SEO's.. So where are the search engines? they are the board we play on, and the rules we play by.

In chess you know your knight moves two forward, one sideways. There is no fence to stop you moving it, nothing to stop you cheating to win, other than the opposition, and your own degree of self control/ethics/ call it what you like.

I will play chess for hours, then when the game is over, start another right away, never getting bored always excited. Now what if I could just pick up my queen and plonk it down next to the king, call check, and win the game? How many more games like that do you think I would play?

So YES I know I would do it, as it IS in my clients best interest if I have in writing that 100% cast Iron guarantee that the practice will NEVER be penalised.

Bad Dog OWG!

[projectphp]

The moderators line up behind you and the poor topic starter gets a digital gang-bang.

Your choice of colourful phrase aside, there is a difference. A hypothetical question points to the answerer's ethics, not the asker's.

There is a classic quote that I mis-attribute to Arthur Miller (cause that's the way I heard it told) that goes like this:

Arthur is at a party, and spots a young lass he fancies. After several minutes of chat he says:
A: Miss, would you sleep with me for $1,000,000.
Lass: Yes Mr Miller, I would.
A: How about $20?
L: Mr Miller, what sought of Lady do you think I am?
A: We've established that, now we're just haggling over price (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

My point being, does the figure make something valid? What is it that makes us do X, Y or Z? Is it some mythical belief in the existence of a "higher power", like authority, Jehova or Allah? Is it only the checks and balances that keep us in line, or is it something else? Is all that seperates people there reaction to being caught? Rhetorical questions all of which i have no answers to, and all of which greater men than I have attempted to answer.

The notion that overt punishment and reward are the only motivating forces in human behaviour always saddens me. This is partly the reason for catastrophes like 9/11, Nazi Germany and the Crusades. Humanity is litterred with people who fought, killed and maimed because of some allegiance to, or expected reward from, a "higher power".

All of which leads me back to this quote:

What happened to your moral high ground.

What is the morality of asking a question? Are there questions that should never be asked? Is the moral high ground always obvious, and does it neccesitate never questioning?

I know you will say your not sugesting that people do it but what is the purpose of the question.

Knowledge? Debate? Simple human curiosity?

Only Jill can answer, but to make the assumption that asking such a question somehow invalidates anything is a dubious logical connection at best. It is an interesting question, but the answers are probably the more interesting part (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Irony]

Anyone who says they would not do it is a little naive IMO (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) There is no one being hurt,

The searcher is who will get hurt. That's enough.

Call me naive, call me whatsoever -I still WOULD NOT.

Just incapable of (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) Physically.

I will play chess for hours

Ok, well, I'm a terrible chess-player, perhaps, that's the reason (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[qwerty]

I wouldn't do it. It would make me feel like I was relying on a crutch rather than truly improving the client's site. Besides, if I did it once, I'd do it again, and if it was all it took to get a site to the top, I wouldn't bother doing anything else. That would mean that my "work" would get to be pretty boring, and I'd end up quitting the business.

I spent enough time in a job that didn't require any thought or creativity to know that I wouldn't want to go back to it.

[Alan Perkins]

There is no one being hurt, other than those below you in the SERPs

Searchers would be hurt by not getting to the most relevant results, and by being duped into thinking that they were looking at results based on relevance rather than advertisements masquerading as search results.

The search engine would be hurt by failing to deliver the most relevant results, thereby letting down its searchers, and by having to dedicate resources to spam detection that it could otherwise dedicate to delivering more relevant results.

Other webmasters would be hurt by being displaced from their rightful position in the search results (those below you) and/or appearing in lesser quality search results (those above you).

The web generally would be hurt since search engines are an essential part of its information architecture, and search engines producing lower quality results means a lower quality web.

[madams]

Querty: I wouldn't do it. It would make me feel like I was relying on a crutch rather than truly improving the client's site. Besides, if I did it once, I'd do it again, and if it was all it took to get a site to the top, I wouldn't bother doing anything else. That would mean that my "work" would get to be pretty boring, and I'd end up quitting the business.

Ah. but if you did do it you would make a load of cash and have more time to get you hair sorted out and dump those 60´s clothes.

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)