Seo For A Dummy Options

[SlamTheMan]

The 'dummy' being me (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I created a site for my mortgage business some time ago using Frontpage just to have a web presence.

Then recently I subscribed to Google Adwords and was pleasantly suprised by how many enquiries I got (yes, I got my hopes up and started looking forward to living an expensive lifestyle). However, after a few days the click-throughs declined and are now non-existent. I have a feeling that google placed me high up initially to get me hooked and now want me to pay big click-through rates.

A couple of weeks ago I got a guy from an SEO firm saying he'd get me will placed on the free rankings by optimizing my site through keywords. What he then did was to put up a link on my homepage to a site map which had a list of keywords and a page for each of those keywords.

After that he said that my site wasn't search engine friendly because it was in frames. So I redesigned my site without frames (again using Frontpage).

Now he's been on to me again saying that the site still isn't search engine friendly because it's been done in Frontpage and it's not optimized very well. He wants to redesign it using Dreamweaver and optimize it properly for me (obviously for a fee). He mentioned things like having H1 & H2 headers and the navigation buttons should be in text.

Unfortunately, this is all a foreign language to me but I get a feeling that he's just trying to get more money out of me.

I'd appreciate it if you guys could take a look at my site www.ukmortgagehunter.co.uk and give me some feedback. Is this guy talking sense?

Please dumb it down for me as much as poss.

Many thanks
Slam

[SIZE=1]live link removed as per forum guidelines[SIZE=1]

This post has been edited by OldWelshGuy: Mar 30 2004, 07:31 AM

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi Slam, welcome (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

We do have a site review section, but it is meant for people who are active users as reviewing a site properly takes a while. Active users are members who have posted more than 20 real posts, so hang around have a look at the posts and chip in if you can, before you know it you will be an active member, and hooked (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In answer to your question, this guy should have told you exactly what he thought should be done to the site way before he started to do it. You are operating a site in a very competitive marketplace, and I have one customer operating within it, so trust me when I say it is not easy.

I completely rebuilt the site, as there was no way it was going to rank with it being as general a site as it was. We ended up with 40 highly optimised pages, with links coming in on a phrase basis to the deep linked pages, it was a nightmare, and I would only consider doing this again for about 5 times the fee I quoted.

The industry that you are in is a high value per client aquisition business, so my advice to you is to learn about writing good adwords copy and tags, not just to attract hits, but to prevent expensive non converting click throughs also. Do the maths, if you are converting 1:100 click throughs, and each CT is costing you £3, then if your average sale is £500 your on a winner. There are loads of good phrases out there that are bringing in business for mortgage companies, the thing is though the buulk of them are targetting the wrong ones, the ones that are costing £3-10 per click.

By all means revamp your site if it makes you happy, but revamp it with clients in mind, redesign it with conversions in mind, as in your industry, when you have them, you have to nail them or lose them.

In reply to your frontpage question, the use of frontpage over dreamweaver has no connection with SEO, he is wrong on that front.

Hope this helps

OWG

[ephricon]

In reply to your frontpage question, the use of frontpage over dreamweaver has no connection with SEO, he is wrong on that front.

I couldn't agree more! I have about 15 sites or so that I manage, about 10 in FrontPage and 5 in DW. I've noticed no noticeable difference between the two, and indeed my best sites (from a SE ranking standpoint) have been done in FrontPage.

[torka]

Hey, Slam! Welcome to the forum! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

I agree, FP versus Dreamweaver shouldn't make a difference.

However, if the other things he's saying are true (no H1 tags, images for links, for instance), then, yes, there are some legitimate things that can be done to optimize your site better. As OWG said, you are in a competitive market, so it won't be easy, but it can be done. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You might want to check out our Tips for Newbies. Don't get frustrated if you don't understand everything the first time through. SEO is a complex art. However, these should help you understand better what your SEO is talking about and begin to judge for yourself whether what he's recommending is the kind of thing you want to do.

Hope this helps! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)

--Torka (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mf_prop.gif)

[Leann_Pass]

He wants to redesign it using Dreamweaver and optimize it properly for me (obviously for a fee). He mentioned things like having H1 & H2 headers and the navigation buttons should be in text.

We don't use FP or DW because the code is soooo bulky (mostly unnecessary). We wind up rebuiding sites that use these WYSIWYG editors and get much better results by doing so. Having seasoned developers on board is a plus for us there, I can see how one could under estimate the cost of it.

Understand, though, that using FP or DW doesn't mean you CANT rank well, as long as your site can be spidered it is possible to rank well.

You do need keyword research, good keyword positioning and optimized title tags.

Know matter how much you do with the on-page factors (mentioned above), you are going to have to LINK BUILD like crazy in the competitive area you are in.

I absolutely agree with Old Welsh Guy...this SEO person should have told you UPFRONT what was needed. Giving a detailed proposal and quote is just good business, SEO or not.

[bkernst]

Regarding the frames, I have got a client with a frames within frames site, which has got a lot of visitors from various search engines. Frames should not cause an issue, but just in case make sure there is a noframes section.
What the editor used concerned, if you really want to, you can use Notepad or any other text editor, just make sure your HTML doesn't look like Word HTML.

Follow the Tip for newsbies, they are there to help you get it right from the beginning.

Bernhard

[SlamTheMan]

Thanks for the responses guys (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)

OldWelshGuy, sorry about putting in the live link, I've read the forum guidelines now.

quote by torka

I agree, FP versus Dreamweaver shouldn't make a difference.

However, if the other things he's saying are true (no H1 tags, images for links, for instance), then, yes, there are some legitimate things that can be done to optimize your site better.

Does anyone have a good links regarding H1 tags and how to insert them? Also, when you say 'images for links' are you refering to the hover buttons? if so, what can i do as an alternative?

quote by Leann_Pass

Know matter how much you do with the on-page factors (mentioned above), you are going to have to LINK BUILD like crazy in the competitive area you are in.

Is link building simply asking current high ranking sites to put my link on their site somewhere in return for me linking them to mine?

[Jill]

Welcome SlamTheMan! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

The problem isn't really with the design or coding of your site. Yes, you can do all that and pay the money, but chances are it's not going to have any effect.

You are in one of the most competitive markets there is. Some H1 tags and a nice Dreamweaver design isn't going to suddenly make your site better than the 1 million other sites on the same topic.

So unless you can figure out a way to make yours the cream of that 1 million crop, I wouldn't waste any more money with a redesign, H1 tags, or anything else, quite frankly.

Think traditional marketing, publicity and old-fashioned PR (not PageRank). If you plan to invest some money in those things, then yes, you will need a beautiful professionally designed site. If not, don't bother, imo.

Jill

[SlamTheMan]

Thanks Jill.

I guess I'm fully aware that the bigger firms are going to be able to pay more for good SEO and that there's a lot of my competitors out there.

I'd just like to think that I'm doing everything I can (within my means) to optimize my site.

[OldWelshGuy]

The two hardest sites I have worked on were the mortgage/refinance site, and an adult toy store. The mortgage site was if anything a tougher nut to crack, as you are more limited in your phrases for optimisation.

I spent a mountain of time researching and building the content, never again!

Unless the money was right (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

My guess is that your man has had a bit of a result with the odd non competitive site by using the site map keyword spammy type thing, and is now out of his depth, I have to say that there were times that I feared for my sanity while working on the finance site. (then again most people that I have had contact with have concern for my sanity (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif) ).

[amabaie]

To start with, a whole bunch of dittos.

I think the key is that everything your SEO is telling you is true, except the part about FrontPage and Dreamweaver. The only small nuisance is the extra coding that might get placed in your source code, but that is common to both programs. I code by hand, so the extra fluff doesn't slow down the page for visitors or for search engines. It is also so much more versatile.

Your SEO still has not told you everything. As many people have already noted, you are in a competitive sector. There is no way around spending lots of time or lots of money on SEO. Like advertising, this is marketing, and it does cost money and it does take time. It also takes a lot of inbound links from quality, relevant sites. It does not take link exchanges (I got a very competitive site to #3 for their top search term without giving away a single outbound link -- linking out is against company policy), but it does take linking in.

Because of the competitive market you are in, you are unlikely to win with me-too SEO. If 100 sites all do the same thing, the one who starts first and keeps going wins the race. If you start out later, you have to be strategic and think outside the box. If you do, you can definitely get high rankings.

In your place, I would do two things:

1. Decide if I want to spend the resources required to get and keep top rankings.
2. Hire an SEO who thinks creatively, a "strategic SEO", and goes beyond traditional me-too coding (and who is up front with you about what needs to be done).

OK, that's my 2-cents. Best of luck.

[Leann_Pass]

Does anyone have a good links regarding H1 tags and how to insert them? Also, when you say 'images for links' are you refering to the hover buttons? if so, what can i do as an alternative?

There is a lot of good info out there Slam. I have a simple basic seo tutorial on my site that a lot of "newbies" find useful. You will find H1 info there as well as info on getting listed in directories, which is good start to link building.

Optimizing your site is a good thing and it is NOT impossible to beat the big boys.

Hope this helps,
Leann

[Jill]

It's a shame that so many so-called SEOs will happily take someone's money for SEO work, and the unsuspecting client will actually be thinking they're going to suddenly rank highly for the word "mortgage."

They're not.

Jill

[Leann_Pass]

Oh heavens, I hope he isn't thinking he is magically going to rank for the word "mortgage" ! I don't think he meant that.

He could however, go for terms that are more specific.

[SlamTheMan]

No, I was thinking more of product specific terms like 'adverse credit mortgages' and 'first time buyer mortgage'.