Choice Of Title Tag Keywords Options

[SteelersFan]

Hi,
I've got a problem with my homepage Title tag. I've been experimenting with the Title tag to try to find the right combination of keywords, maybe even too much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) LOL

I tried to optimize my Title tag on the homepage for 3 keywords. I do well on the 1st one (usually page 1 or 2 in both Google and Yahoo but now on page 3), worse with the 2nd one (around page 6-10), and absolutely terrible for the 3rd one (not listed until page 8 on Google and not in the top 10 in Yahoo).

Using Google adwords tool, the keywords have the following searches per month:

1st keyword - 673,00-823,00

2nd keyword - 90,500-90,500

3rd keyword - 201,000-201,000

Now, I have played around with different variations of using all three keywords with the 1st keyword used first all the time. However, no matter what I do with the other 2 keywords or where i place them (middle or end of title) I can't get my site listed on the upper serps for the 2nd and 3rd keywords. That is for the homepage. However, I have found that a few of my other content pages will rank higher than the homepage but of course they have the 2nd and 3rd keywords as their title page.

Recently I dropped the two word homepage title and started using a title tag with anywhere from 7-10 words. The title tag has the 3 keywords which accounted for 5 words and the vast majority of the other words where like "the" "for" "and".

Now, obviously the homepage ranks higher when I only use the 2 word keyword, but I also know that using the 3 keywords also helps me rank higher for multi-word search phrases. So my question is do you think i should just go back to a 2 word homepage title or keep the longer 3 keyword title with the 1-2 page drop in serps so that I get the residual traffic from the longer page title? Or perhaps should I just get my homepage listed high for the main keyword and then optimize other pages for the other keywords? I'm confused and don't know what the best practice is?

I hope I have made sense here, but I probably didn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) :-)

I'm trying to tell you my situation without putting in actual stuff so as to not break any rules or anything. :-)

Thank you for your help. :-)

[Jill]

Are you saying that you're attempting to optimize for 1-word keywords?

If so, you've got things all wrong.

You are supposed to optimize for PHRASES not individual words. You'll want to do your keyword research for phrases not words as well.

You might want to read up on keyword research in our kwr forum.

[SteelersFan]

Hi Jill,
I have 3 keywords that I want to optimize for with the search numbers mentioned above. The 1st keyword is a one word keyword and I actually rank the best on that one. The 2nd and 3rd keywords are actually 2 word keywords.

I have done some keyword research using the free Google tool and using the longer 7-10 word title my phrases will match some of the 3 and 4 word keywords. My keywords are kind of hard to use in a row, etc.

I hope that makes sense?

[SteelersFan]

Hi,
I'm still trying to figure out if it is best to just use my primary keyword title phrase for my site which is the two word website name, or if I should be using the 7-10 work title? I rank better for my major keyword using the two word title that the 7-10 word title. I'm think to just use the 2 word title and optimize other content pages for the other keywords.

Anyone have any advice?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/whitehat.gif)

[Jill]

I'm still trying to figure out if it is best to...

That's because we can't tell you what's BEST. There is no best in SEO. Every page, every site, every industry is different.

That said, I like long Titles. Would rarely have one less than 10 words or so.

[SteelersFan]

That's because we can't tell you what's BEST. There is no best in SEO. Every page, every site, every industry is different.

That said, I like long Titles. Would rarely have one less than 10 words or so.

Ok, I understand about the first part. :-)

The last part you said you would "rarely have one less than 10 words or so"? It would seem to me that 10 or more words would run outside the 65-66 characters that the search engines allow in the title tags before cutting it off. Or does that not matter? I've been trying to fit my page titles within the 65-66 character range. Is there an absolute limit of characters to use in the title tag? And I thought the less words you used the high your keyword denisty was in a title tag the better? Is that not so?

Thank you for your replies. :-)

[Jill]

would run outside the 65-66 characters that the search engines allow in the title tags before cutting it off.

Correct.

I ignore that guideline because I don't care if they get cut off in the display.

We've got lots of other threads on Title tags as well as my Title Tag Article which I'm sure is linked from the Tips for Newbies.

[SteelersFan]

Hi Jill,
I currently have 10 words in my title that includes my main 3 keywords but if I were to add 3 more words, I can add one more really important keyword phrase in the title. Do you think 13 is too long? From what you've said I would think not. But I'm not sure. :-)

[Jill]

No, but I bet you could reword it in such a way as to get it down to no more than 11. That's typically my goal.

[SteelersFan]

No, but I bet you could reword it in such a way as to get it down to no more than 11. That's typically my goal.

Hmm, I could leave out that "resource" word. Also, one of my two word keywords could be used as one word. That would make it 11.

The problem with that 2 word keyword is that it is specific, but it is also one of the words brought up when I do the one word version. It kind of seems like the word phrase would be better but then again the top site on that two phrase keyword doesn't even have the other word in it's title. LOL

I can see what you guys mean about there never being a BEST way on this.

One other quick question. Since I'm doing all this tinkering trying to find the best title. How often should I wait after make a title tag change to see how it works? Before trying something else? I'm not real sure how often the search engines update, but they are always crawling my site.

I even had a rare event today where my homepage for the first time ever jumped to page 1 on google several different times during the day and then finally went back to it's page 3 ranking. that was weird and I'm not sure why it did that?

[Jill]

I'd let it stay for quite awhile. Like at least 3 months. For a new site, even more.

[SteelersFan]

I'd let it stay for quite awhile. Like at least 3 months. For a new site, even more.

Oh, I had been changing it quite frequently. Do you think search engines penalize for that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

[Jill]

Oh, I had been changing it quite frequently. Do you think search engines penalize for that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

No. It's your website, you can change things as much as you want. They don't penalize for you changing your own website. They penalize for people trying to trick them into thinking their website is something it's not. And that's pretty much all they penalize for.

[SteelersFan]

No. It's your website, you can change things as much as you want. They don't penalize for you changing your own website. They penalize for people trying to trick them into thinking their website is something it's not. And that's pretty much all they penalize for.

Ah, that makes sense. :-)

[SteelersFan]

I also wanted to ask if having my primary keyword in the title tag TWICE is a bad idea or will that help? Or is that a waste of tag title real estate and would be better to only use your primary keyword at the beginning of the title tag and use other keywords in the title tag instead?

Thank you for your advice. :-)