To What Extend Seo Is Effective? Options

[Barmaley]

Hello everyone,

I am absolute newbie to SEO but I am very much determine to learn to art and science of SEO. However, before committing myself to studying I wold like you to give me friendly advice so I may understand better on what should I expect from the time invested to it.

I just finished my website related to school tutoring services and and start paying to EdWords to PPC eds. It works and I am getting clients on a regular basis, however, it is expensive and I wold like to get more clients. After reading articles on the web for several days I found that organic search can be a big supplement to the traffic and decided to learn more about SEO. Knowledge of several facts can help me a lot in my plans but that info is available only to people with experience with SEO. Questions:

1) Can I expect that my website will be ranked by Google in the first 10 or 5 positions on keywords like "math tutor" and "home tutoring" ? If yes:

- what will be involved to get there?
- how long may it take?
- how many visitors should it bring to me?

2) What is a better quality traffic: PPC or Organic search?

3) Any additional advice to a newbie will be appreciated

Thank you in advance,
Barmaley

P.S. Apologies for English style and grammar mistakes - English is my second languish

[Jill]

1) Can I expect that my website will be ranked by Google in the first 10 or 5 positions on keywords like "math tutor" and "home tutoring" ?

No. Do you home tutor people from all over the world? If not, why would/should your site rank for such a general phrase?

Start by reading our Tips for Newbies and you'll have a clearer picture of what SEO is and isn't, and whether it would be helpful to your site.

[Barmaley]

Jill. thank you for your answer and the links - they are very useful.

No. Do you home tutor people from all over the world? If not, why would/should your site rank for such a general phrase?

My company do pretend to do in home tutoring everywhere in USA (not all over the world though) as well as our website claims it.

Does a website rating depend on amount of business a company is doing or it depends on the quality of the website which represents the company on the web and amount of links etc?

[phoenix212]

It's usually got nothing to do with the amount of business you do because search engines can't tell that. It's all about links, quality and trust.

[axeray]

Read as much as you can, get involved in the forums and implement what you learn.

SEO is a long term strategy so don't expect any signifciant results overnight.

[nethy]

Jill. thank you for your answer and the links - they are very useful.
My company do pretend to do in home tutoring everywhere in USA (not all over the world though) as well as our website claims it.

Does a website rating depend on amount of business a company is doing or it depends on the quality of the website which represents the company on the web and amount of links etc?

No. A website's ranking is not directly related to the number of clients they have. The ranking is based mostly on the content of the site & links to it. What Jill was referring to was that Google (via these methods) & other search engines rank sites by how likely it is that they will be useful to searchers.
Look at the top ten results for 'online shop,' I see 5 mega retailers (online shops) that most people will have heard of before, 1 wikipedia link (about online shops), 1 top online shop builder (for online shops). The remaining 3 I do not recognise but they are probably giants too. There are thousands of good online shops out there, thousands of (good) General articles about online shops (like wikipedia) & thousands of (good) shop builders. Google have to choose. They use various (secret) methods to do this, but most good methods are going to favour Amazon over Rupert's books. Otherwise the method isn't working very well.Have a few reasonably knowledgeable people associate 3 things with the term 'online shop' & you'll probably have a pretty reasonable overlap with google's search results.
Similarly, if I image search for 'actor,' I get Angelina Jolia, Keanu Reeves, etc.

That's not a technical issue (Google don't directly care how many movies you're in), it's just a reflection of the goal of a search engine.

I am absolute newbie to SEO but I am very much determine to learn to art and science of SEO. However, before committing myself to studying I wold like you to give me friendly advice so I may understand better on what should I expect from the time invested to it.

This is actually a good question & I'm a bit disappointed you haven't gotten some better answers. I'll try to start & hope others chime in.

Asking the right questions is half the battle
First, most people that decide to look into SEO usually start too far 'downstream:' they want to rank with this site for this keyword on this search engine. That's normally a problem. Try taking a couple of steps back. First, you are looking for students not search engine rankings. The latter is a means not an end. You do not need rankings, you need traffic. Start there. The goal of SEO is to increase traffic to your site from free search engine listings.

Long Tail
A big chunk of online traffic to most SEO optimised sites is (in SEO lingo) 'long tail traffic': terms like 'nice math tutor for gMed exams near Kabhul.' They might only be searched a few times (or once) a month, but they add up.

Niches
'Go after niches' is something else you will often hear in online marketing. There is good reason for this. If you want to be an online retailer, hte fact that you have no chance of outranking Amazon for 'online store' is no reason to quit. You may be able to outrank them for some small micro niche: Vehicle Restoration Products, bulky items that require local delivery, hair care products specifically designed for South pacific Islanders' hair, etc. I won't outrank Keanu Reeves for 'sexy actor,' but if I put my mind to it, I might for 'Sleazy 3rd rate Melbourne actor.' Keanu can't touch me there.

You may not be able to rank for things like 'tutoring' but maybe you can for things like 'remote esl tutoring.' Keyword research is key here.

What is feasible?
You probably noticed I have still not answered the question. It's not possible to reaaly answer off the cuff. It depends how you are doing at the moment, how many people search for the things you need to rank for & how competitive that is.

I don't know much about your area, but my guess is that once someone lands on your site, if it does a good job of converting, you'll get a reasonably high conversion rate: like 5% or more is a possibility. I'm going to venture further & assume that a tutoring gig is worth a bit, so a few students a week is a reasonable outcome.

Anyway, it's impossible to say what results to expect. SEO has a bit of a learning curve, you may need to mobalise others in your organisation which is not always easy (a paid consultant always has an advantage there). It'll depend on what you can produce. But SEO can usually improve results quite well over time. You may want to consider hiring a consultant to help.

[Barmaley]

Nethy,

thank you for your extended answer. I found this forums on about.com in 10 top seo forums and they have good choice of forums.

Is home tutoring and math tutoring a competitive area compare to typical SEO applications?

[nethy]

Again, 'competitive' is a relative term. The answer to that would depend on the strength of your site.

My guess is that it is about the same as most other obvious no. 1 keywords for a service category of that scope. IE, probably no more competitive then fencing, scuba diving courses or something else. Unfortunately that is quite competative. I assume you mean 'Math Tutor' on Google.com, that means top of the world.

Most SEO strategies focus on niche strategies. That is, either niche keywords like "Math tutor for SATs in South west Michigan" or niche search engines such as ranking for ""math tutor" on a local search engine (they get used as much as the .com in many places outside the US). I can't guarantee that's a viable strategy for your area or the correct one. But it is far more common.

Beyond that, working out how competitive an area is, what is feasible & what is an appropriate strategy is beyond the scope of a forum. Even if you do manage to find an answer to this, I wouldn't trust it. This is one of the reasons SEO consulting is a relatively big industry. The research side is pretty important.

[Jill]

Is home tutoring and math tutoring a competitive area compare to typical SEO applications?

There are 17,900 pages that have the phrase "home tutoring" in their Title tag. So you are minimally competing with that many.

So now you have to figure out how to make your page(s) more relevant than those almost 18k others so that Google will show yours rather than the others. That is the challenge of SEO.

Or you can choose phrases that don't have quite so many others competing for them and at least that way you only have to make your site better than fewer pages.

[BBCoach]

Hmmm. A lot to chew on. First let's me answer your two questions.

1) Can I expect that my website will be ranked by Google in the first 10 or 5 positions on keywords like "math tutor" and "home tutoring" ? If yes:

Yes. #2 Organic clickthrus have a higher ROI than PPC. Right now for me it's running at 99:1

- what will be involved to get there?

1. Follow the guidelines for newbies in designing your site. 2. Don't just advertise your services. Start writing as many articles/examples solving educational problems (math, science, english etc.) on a fairly frequent basis. In other words, give the world some uniquely valuable information which demonstrates your expertise as a tutor (but don't give away the farm). Create various social networking accounts (Squidoo, MySpace, Facebook etc.) where your likely clientele will congregate and keep those accounts updated (with links to your website) and new articles/examples. 3. Unless you plan on tutoring around the world, I'd strongly suggest you target your geographical location for your services. You may not ever rank high in Iceland or Canada, but if you're in England you may get to be top dog. Which is where you're paying customers are (hypothetically, not literally).

- how long may it take?

1-3 years depending on how much effort you put into it.

- how many visitors should it bring to me?

Unknown. A lot depends on your efforts, but for such a small population of potential clients I wouldn't think more than 300/day, but again that's gonna be related to how much valuable info you decide to share with the world. What does your PPC drive to your website? That'll prolly give you the best indication of possible future traffic.

This post has been edited by BBCoach: Dec 11 2008, 12:09 PM

[nethy]

Hmmm. A lot to chew on. First let's me answer your two questions.

I want to chime in & say that I agree with most of what BBcoach has said.

Yes. #2 Organic clickthrus have a higher ROI than PPC. Right now for me it's running at 99:1

I have had extremely varied experience with PPC/SEO click through rates. On average I found organic slightly higher. 99:1 is an extreme case in my sample group. This seems to depend a lot on industry. Straightforward Services (tax accountants, plumbers, landscapers, etc.), usually have very high paid search CTR in my experience. My theory is simply that ads are better then organic for these terms. Many people (the right people) are just looking for a phone number. Tutoring may be similar to this. Ads for 'maths tutor' are more likely to lead to a math tutor in your area's phone number. Organics will likely take you to articles, professional associations, directories & job sites.
However, many people always click on Organic results. You will be less diluted there as a service provider.

Also I want to say something more about visitor numbers. I have seen examples (also in the service sector area) of very small numbers making site owners very happy. Many services are high ticket items with small-medium operators taking on only 5, 10, 20 jobs (or new clients) a year. Think construction, corporate law, software development, etc.

These are often the very industries where you can have a 10% conversion rate (to contact not to sale) without breaking a sweat. 10 visits a week could mean one phone call a week which could mean 100% of the amount of new business they need. In these case, ROI is usually not a concern. Volume is. I have even heard tale of a 5 clicks per month campaign generating $100ks worth of business (some sort of specialised heavy machinery hire).

I think (I'm guessing) tutoring would be closer to that end of the spectrum then an online shop. You're not looking to take on dozens of new students per day. If you are, then you have a serious endeavour to take on. Your SEO efforts will need to be considerable. But that is relative to your other marketing needs. Your PPC needs (read budget) to be considerable.

If you don't mind me asking, are you one of these new 'outsourced' tutoring services?

[Barmaley]

Jill, BBcouch, Nethy,

Thank you guys for taking time to give me very serious answers. It was very useful and helpful.

No, Nethy, it is not "outsources" service; we run high end US based in home tutoring service. The only way to "outsource" in home tutoring may be to use illegal visitors from Mexico. While I heard that they are great at home constructions, I never heard them to be high in math lol.

I am the only "broken English" guy in my company and poor English kills me: try to imagine to make a write copy in a foreign language (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[BBCoach]

Your welcome.

On average I found organic slightly higher. 99:1 is an extreme case in my sample group.

Right now PPC accounts for only 1% of the clickthru/revenue from SEs looking at the whole picture. Individually, where there are no organic listings, a handful of PPCs hit 15-25% and most are between 1-3%. We have a target goal of $1-2M in spending for next year's PPCs. Personally, I think it's a waste of money in the whole scheme of things even though it is profitable.

[CaribSEO]

I work for an SEO company. Over the few years I have worked there, I have seen many small and medium sized companies benefit greatly from our SEO efforts. I agree with Jill, that this is specific to your website. Some websites or businesses will not benefit from SEO. Take your time and learn the benefits of SEO and see if it fits your needs. I am new to this forum, but it seems like a great place for information on SEO.