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> Question About Keyword Phrases
nazek_attar
post Aug 12 2008, 03:40 PM
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Hello,

I am new to optimization and i have 3 questions regarding onsite optimization of keywords and anchor text link.

1. Let us say i want to optimize the 4 phrases below in the content of my site:

- "world of warcraft guide"
- "alliance leveling guide"
- "leveling guide"
- "world of warcraft alliance guide"

The phrases above have words in common. Now,

a. if i optimize for the phrase "Alliance leveling guide"; will that be optimizing the phrase "leveling guide" at the same time?
b. If i optimize for the phrase "world of warcraft alliance guide" will that also be optimizing the phrase "world of warcraft guide" at the same time? or i have to optimize each phrase alone? (so that i need to optimize "world of warcraft guide" and also "world of warcraft allaince guide")

The difference in "b" is that the sequence of words in the 2 phrases is not the same (unlike in a).

2. How many times i need to mention a phrase on my page so that it is a good key density?

3. A question similar to 1 but for anchor text link. If i make my anchor text "Alliance Leveling Guide", will that also be targeting at the same time the search phrase "Leveling Guide"? as leveling is before guide in both of them?

If i use text link "World of warcrat alliance guide", will that also be targeting "world of warcaft guide" at the same time? or not because the word alliance will split the second phrase?

I am sorry if that is a very newbie question. I have asked this question on another forum, and no one answered it. Please help me with it as understanding this point will clear so many other issues in my mind regarding optimization.

Thanks
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Randy
post Aug 12 2008, 04:19 PM
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Welcome nazek attar ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hi.gif)

1-a. You're talking about on page optimization and getting the phrases in the page content right? If so, the answer is Yes.

1-b. To a certain extent, Yes. But it's not Exact Match does have its uses.

2. Keyword Density is a lousy metric. Don't use it.

3. To a large extent, Yes.

4. To a certain extent, Yes. But it's not Exact Match, and that does have its uses.

You'll probably want to browse through the Tips for Newbies. Lots of answers to questions you may have in that.
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SEMSEO
post Aug 14 2008, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE(nazek_attar @ Aug 13 2008, 04:40 AM) *
2. How many times i need to mention a phrase on my page so that it is a good key density?



Study your competitor's web site that is above your web site in ranking. If their keyword density is higher than yours (e.g. Wikipedia articles), then probably keyword density is a factor. For example, I am running fan sites of a few famous celebrities and I find it frustrating that my web sites ranked lower than Wikipedia & IMDB even though I have more external anchor text links. After converting my Flash sites to pure HTML, some of my sites are now at the top in ranking i.e. above Wikipedia and IMDB.
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Jill
post Aug 14 2008, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE
Study your competitor's web site that is above your web site in ranking. If their keyword density is higher than yours (e.g. Wikipedia articles), then probably keyword density is a factor.


No, no, no, no, no.

What a wrong conclusion to draw.

What about the hundreds of other factors that might be causing them to be higher. Just because they use the phrase more times doesn't mean that's what's making them rank above you. Not even close!
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SEMSEO
post Aug 14 2008, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE(Jill @ Aug 15 2008, 10:33 AM) *
No, no, no, no, no.

What a wrong conclusion to draw.

What about the hundreds of other factors that might be causing them to be higher. Just because they use the phrase more times doesn't mean that's what's making them rank above you. Not even close!



Sorry Master Jill.

I made a ceteris paribus assumption. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/searchme.gif)
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Copywriter39
post Aug 15 2008, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE(SEMSEO @ Aug 14 2008, 09:19 PM) *
Study your competitor's web site that is above your web site in ranking. If their keyword density is higher than yours (e.g. Wikipedia articles), then probably keyword density is a factor.


You want to study your competition, but not to find out their keyword density. I find it more beneficial to see what their unique value proposition is and who they have linking to them. If you focus on keyword density you begin to lose focus on what the main objective is. That your copy connects with prospects.

QUOTE(SEMSEO @ Aug 14 2008, 09:19 PM) *
After converting my Flash sites to pure HTML, some of my sites are now at the top in ranking i.e. above Wikipedia and IMDB.


If I'm searching for answers to a question and I see either Wikipedia or IMDB listed, I'll click on them first no matter what they are ranked. Call that the TrustFactor.
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SEMSEO
post Aug 15 2008, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE(Copywriter39 @ Aug 15 2008, 01:11 PM) *
If I'm searching for answers to a question and I see either Wikipedia or IMDB listed, I'll click on them first no matter what they are ranked. Call that the TrustFactor.


You are right because that is what I myself been doing. But I am talking about official celebrity's web site here. For example, if you search for "britney spears," you will find Wikipedia's article is above Britney's official web site. Who do we trust here? The official web site or an article written by Tom, Dick, and Harry Potter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/girl_cray2.gif)


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Zishan Ahmed
post Aug 16 2008, 08:09 AM
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Obviosly the official website of Briteny Spears.
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Randy
post Aug 16 2008, 05:35 PM
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I'm not sure I'd agree Zishan.

With Britney's site you're not getting her telling you about anything for the most part. I'd hazard to guess 99.9% of it comes from someone some publicist hired.

And you'd have to understand that you're going to get a very one-sided view of the world from either Britney or her hired writers. I certainly wouldn't expect Britney's web site to contain any bad news or negative stuff, unless it was there to respond to something that's already been alleged or exposed somewhere else. So at best you might get half the picture.

In some cases I can certainly see where the views from an unconnected, hopefully non-biased group of Tom, Dick and Harry Potter's might be a better choice overall. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/giggle.gif)
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Copywriter39
post Aug 16 2008, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE(Zishan Ahmed @ Aug 16 2008, 08:09 AM) *
Obviosly the official website of Briteny Spears.


I agree with Randy. A website put together by Britney Spears public relations department is liable to omit many facts of her life. Especially information about her breakdown and subsequent problems.
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Zishan Ahmed
post Aug 19 2008, 08:36 AM
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Boss you cannot 100% trust the site of wikipedia, as it is been modified by some Tom, Dick and Harry.., but atleast with the BS site, you wud be getting some thing concrete.., which might have some valueable for the searchers.
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torka
post Aug 19 2008, 09:47 AM
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Yeah, like you can 100% trust the PR "spin" from the official celebrity site... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nah.gif)

Look, nothing on the web -- and the argument can be made this applies to all media sources, not just the web -- can be 100% trusted without verification from at least one (and preferably several) other source(s). Period. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nono.gif)

When comparing Wikipedia or other "outside" sources and the official celeb site for most celebs, Wikipedia will in many cases present a more balanced perspective, precisely BECAUSE it can be edited by multiple people, each with their own experiences and points of view, rather than simply spouting whatever sanitized line of crap the celeb's publicist has decreed is the "official version of events." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blahblah1.gif)

Which makes it perfectly understandable that the Wikipedia page might very well in some cases get more links, carry more credibility and rank higher than the "official" celeb site.

Just because a page is part of the "official" website of whatever, that doesn't automatically guarantee it the top slot in search. It's got to earn its place, same as every other page in the results.

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--Torka (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_prop.gif)
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Randy
post Aug 19 2008, 09:50 AM
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Well, we're wandering (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) here, but...

Do you seriously believe you can trust everything on Britney's web site?

Or that you can completely trust everything on any web site for that matter?

I don't.
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copywriter
post Aug 20 2008, 02:08 PM
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Allow me to point you to an article that's hot off the digital press about how many keywords are enough.

http://www.marketingwords.com/blog/?p=88

Please, PLEASE don't fall into the trap of keyword density. It is not a valid measure of SEO copywriting success.
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