Minimum Number Of Pages? Options

[RayWrites]

Hello,

A new client recently asked how many pages he'd need written in order to achieve decent organic rankings. He's in a very competitive category(Mobile Laptop Data Security) and is targeting a global audience. I would think a minimum of 10 very targeted pages should be a decent start, eventually garnering him some natural traffic. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ray

[Jill]

You need however many pages it takes to say what needs to be said in a user-friendly manner.

I would suggest first doing the keyword research, and seeing how many keyword phrases would bring in targeted search engine visitors who are looking for exactly what the site offers, and then figuring out what types of pages you need based on that information.

[copywriter]

The site as a whole (collectively) is not ranked. Each, individual page is ranked so, as Jill said, you need however many pages you need to do good business.

[RayWrites]

Hi Jill,

I agree.

That said, my spider sense tells me he'll need more than 10 pages, which may result in some budgetary constraints.

Thanks,

Ray

Note: Sorry I missed your talk at SES Toronto (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[RayWrites]

The site as a whole (collectively) is not ranked. Each, individual page is ranked so, as Jill said, you need however many pages you need to do good business.

Hi Copywriter,

From a holistic point of view, wouldn't it make sense for all of a site's combined pages, themes and phraseology to influence overall page rank and site authority? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ray

[copywriter]

It's not my opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Google ranks each page individually. Always has. Page Rank is for a single page. It's not for the whole website. Do other pages influence the overall theme of the site. Probably. I don't remember what Google's patent says about that right off the top of my head. It would make sense. But just because it makes sense, doesn't mean it is so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink1.gif)

[Jill]

I've never personally believed that Google does "theming."

[piskie]

I strongly believe that Google does theming.

[copywriter]

And what evidence do you have that supports that assumption? (Serious question... not trying to be smart.)

[copywriter]

Just got through going back over the Google patent (which I understand is not the end-all, be-all) and it says nothing about themes. It does mention "topics" and topical analysis, etc., but it is per page, not site wide.

[piskie]

I had a very interesting conversation about Word Stemming and also linking between co-located sites with MC at a London Conference a few years back. Although it was not one of the 2 the core subjects it became clear in my mind at least that Google does measure and apply Theming. He used phrases such as "like minded sites" when referring to linking. Allied to some of the points he touched on when we then moved onto word stemming, I made my mind up that there is a theming element among Googles automated Yardsticks.

This is purely my interpretation and as for verifying or quantifying, I wouldn't know where to start so I haven't.

[copywriter]

Topics are evaluated for linking purposes. Yes. That's a stated fact in the patent.

Stemming, however, has nothing to do with themes. Word stemming is defined in Google's Webmaster Guidelines. All that means is that a root word "diet" can also be included in evaluations for "dieting" and "dietary" - the stems of those words.

You may have made up your mind, but based on the facts I've seen over the last two days, I'd say Google does not use themeing. However, I'm open to looking at hard evidence that points to the contrary.

[piskie]

copyriter, I never suggested that "Stemming" has anything directly to do with Theming. I merely put the conversation into context, that is so that you understood the subjects and principles involved in the discussion.

Having said that, if you accept (hypothetically) that theming existed, could you not see how word stemming would be a very likely tool to be employed when determining themes ??

Furthermore, you seem to be relying rather heavily on "That's a stated fact in the patent". I hope you are not under the impression that Google only has one patent that you refer to as "the patent". Google has a whole shed load of them and many are filed under the name of Senior Google Executives to avoid the uninitiated from seeking them out.

[copywriter]

Yep, I understand there are many patents and that it's not the final source. That's why I said:

Just got through going back over the Google patent (which I understand is not the end-all, be-all)

could you not see how word stemming would be a very likely tool to be employed when determining themes ??

Very likely? Not necessarily. Possible? Yeah, maybe.

Stemming pertains to words. Diet, dietary, dieting, etc. don't necessarily create a theme. Those words could be used on:

a weight loss supplement - dieting + this supplement helps you lose weight

a cardiac surgeon's website - a low-fat diet is good for cardiac health

the American Cancer Society's website - dietary standards set forth by the society help reduce the risk of cancer

a gym or fitness club's website - if you don't like dieting, working out is a good way to lose weight and gain muscle mass

Paula Dean's (from the Food Network) website - if you're on a diet, these recipes are not for you

Each site may mention diet, dieting, dietary, diets, etc. on certain pages, but the entire site is not about dieting. All very different. Nutritional supplements, surgery, nonprofit organization, gym and recipe sites.

If you go by the theory that Google uses themeing, fine. That's totally your option. It might be that themeing plays a role. But I haven't seen anything as of yet that supports that idea.

[Randy]

Paula Dean's (from the Food Network) website - if you're on a diet, these recipes are not for you

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) Too funny!

Bless your heart... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink1.gif)

Back to the orignial question for a moment. I'll try to put what Jill and Karon are saying another way for Ray.

Let's say you do your due diligence with regard to Keyword Research. During which you initially identify 60 keyword phrases that are completely relevant to the site and are being searched for, thus should be included in the copy optimization. (FTR, you'll want to shoot for 100 or more phrases, but even I rarely hit this mark out of the box on a brand new, niche specific site, try as I might.)

Now let's say you also follow the old axiom of trying to incorporate 3 or so phrases in your optimization for each page.

Under this pretty typical situation it means you'd have a minimum of 20 pages that need to be created for the site: 60 KW's / 3 Phrases per Page.

You'll end up with more of course, however I always find this sort of simple math to be a good starting point. And it should be something the client can easily understand too.