Help With Seo Reports, Should I get rid of my SEO? Options

[htown]

I have recently hired an SEO that came recommended by several people but I fear I did not do enough research. It has only been about 5 weeks, and I have only received two reports from him. the reports seem to be a bit scattered and are not very intuitive at all. I have no idea what it all means, all I want to see is some results and am have seen a little but not much. he seems to think that the secret to SEO is all about press releases and links. i had to beg him to give me recommendations of things to change on the site such as link names, keywords, key phrases, what words to use in my title tags, meta tags, etc. One thing that has me suspicious i that one report has a list of blogs that he has creted. They seem like just made up stuff and the author is the name of my company with the number 1 behind it. It seems a little blackhat to me but I could use some advice.

Since I am not sure what I can anc can not say hear I will respond to requests to assist in anyone who can help. I hate to keep throwing money away at this.

Many thanks,
Houston

[chrishirst]

more clueless and stupid, than "blackhat" I would suggest. Someone who doesn't understand the difference between optimising and promoting.

[7 Dragons]

I wouldn't call his techniques BlackHat, but it might lack some "style".
The purpose is always the same, but there are more or less "pretty" ways to do it.
I think it depends on how much you spend. If the price is low, I guess you got a beginner who learned "how to" on Jill's forums. If it's a real pro, you wouldn't even be posting this question.

[scouseflip]

I guess you got a beginner who learned "how to" on Jill's forums. If it's a real pro, you wouldn't even be posting this question.

To be fair if he had read the posts in this forum he would probably be much better off for it. I am self-taught/learnt-what-I-know-about-SEO-through-this-forum and while I would not describe myself as a pro, I have had some good sucess in moving my employers sites up the rankings, as well as helping the sites perform better in terms of conversions...

Sounds more to me as if this guy in the original post is about selling links rather than SEO in general...

[Kenneth White]

To be fair if he had read the posts in this forum he would probably be much better off for it. I am self-taught/learnt-what-I-know-about-SEO-through-this-forum and while I would not describe myself as a pro, I have had some good sucess in moving my employers sites up the rankings, as well as helping the sites perform better in terms of conversions...

Sounds more to me as if this guy in the original post is about selling links rather than SEO in general...

I think that the "SEO" guy htown is working with is just focusing on the Off-Site seo stuff which just includes things like acquiring inbound links and such. In that respect he may not be doing a bad job, but there are a ton of On-Site things that I am sure would be easy wins, and if he isn't doing any of that, then you should be questioning his abilities.

[Orpheus Descendi...]

The only tip off so far that I can see from what you've written, is that he hasn't worked out a keyword strategy with you, but I can think of a reason or two why he would take some time to do that, so I'm still thinking you should have a conversation (in a non threatening way) that will allow him to share his SEO strategies with you before you put him in the lake to see if he floats.

In terms of black-hat-SEO if he hasn't tried to stuff your pages with keywords, and he isn't sending you to link farms, or asking you to put in a huge budget to buy links, and he hasn't set up skanky doorway pages, and you have seen improvement in just 5 weeks (all though that might not have anything to do with him) then he probably doesn't have cloven feet.

Do you have a Letter of Agreement and a Scope of Work document? If not, I would say invite your SEO out for lunch, and have a conversation. You might even want to tell him that you've always wanted to know more about SEO, and ask some questions. If he can't hold a conversation about what he does, then he might not have the chops you want him to have, but that's a lot different than calling him a 'black-hat' SEO just because you don't understand the reports.

Ask him why he thinks that optimising your site isn't the way to go right now?

I would be more concerned that you seem to want results after only 5 weeks, and that you're expecting more reports in such a short time span. SEO takes time, diligency, hard work and patience. It's not fair to put this on him if you're the one not prepared for the long haul. What do you expect to see change from one report to the next in less than 5 weeks? Maybe taking stock of your expectations would also help. Are your expectations realistic?

Also, what about the friends that recommended him. Have you asked them why they made the recommendation?

[7 Dragons]

To be fair if he had read the posts in this forum he would probably be much better off for

I don't think it's a bad SEO that we are talking about here. Scooping around forums might teach you the basics, but it's far from enough to manage a SEO campaign from A to Z.
Again, it all depends on budget. If it's only for a few bucks, why bother take the time to build a proper strategy ? He might even do more work than the bill desserves. Without the exact amount of the budget, it's impossible to judge.

[scouseflip]

I don't think it's a bad SEO that we are talking about here. Scooping around forums might teach you the basics, but it's far from enough to manage a SEO campaign from A to Z.

At the risk of going (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) here...

I agree to an extent with your comments here in that (IMO) to be able to manage an SEO campaign you will probably need to be versed at least to some degree in aspects such as basic web design, online marketing, copywriting etc. But as a stand alone discipline (if such a thing exists!), SEO seems to me to be little more than common sense combined with keeping up to date with whats happening with the SE's and, of course, knowing what factor's are important, what to avoid etc.

From a (learner) marketing position I have picked up the basics of SEO simply by following the advice I have read here (and in other articles, forums etc). I am going up against people who run their business based soley on SEO, who have been in this game for years and are well established. That has not stopped me competing with them (and I am the only operson at this company who is involved in the SEO - only on 4 sites currently admittedly!)

just my experience really (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[K.S. Katz]

...I would be more concerned that you seem to want results after only 5 weeks, and that you're expecting more reports in such a short time span. SEO takes time, diligency, hard work and patience. It's not fair to put this on him if you're the one not prepared for the long haul. What do you expect to see change from one report to the next in less than 5 weeks? Maybe taking stock of your expectations would also help. Are your expectations realistic?

I have to agree with Orpheus Descending in that 5 weeks is a short amount of time in the life of an SEO Campaign. However, five weeks is enough time to develop:

• Baseline Report - a report detailing where you are.
• Action Plan - a plan outlining the project with milestones and time lines.

[Catz]

i had to beg him to give me recommendations of things to change on the site

That right there should put up a red flag for you.

Usually, it is the other way around. The SEO has a hard time getting the site owner to take action on recommendations of site modifications or updates unless the SEO is doing it themselves. You sound like an ideal client in that respect.

If nothing is being done to your site (and in your words you had to beg him to even take a look at that) then your SEO (?) seems to have forgotten what the O in their title stands for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fool.gif) Optimization of the web site pages is an essential part of the process. They are neglecting what they should be closely reviewing, editing and optimizing, your actual marketing tool, the website.

On page optimization is essential and if your SEO is ignoring this because "you don't understand, it's all about links now"...it sounds like you should consider RUNNING the opposite direction.

One thing that has me suspicious is that one report has a list of blogs that he has creted. They seem like just made up stuff and the author is the name of my company with the number 1 behind it.

Those are being put out into the public eye representing you. If you don't like them and think they are "just made up stuff" and you are being listed as the author, speak up now. Don't let it get any worse. Why let someone put your name out as having created something you consider suspicious?

That's the downfall of all these "marketers" discovering they can make money offering SEO services, even when they really don't have a clue what is required to achieve optimum results. They read about links and create a bunch of (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_images/poo.gif) blogs or sites to say they have gotten you links when all they are is junk. There are a few good ones out there but those people have one quality blog and build a reputation with it.

Everyone should take a lesson from chrishirst: Links are advertising NOT optimising!!

Also, SEO is not something to be watched and monitored from day to day expecting instant results. Its effect builds up over time as you work on your site and learn what does and doesn't work for you...if you have a quality site in the eyes of your visitors...and you can't expect results overnight.

[htown]

I appreciate everyones comments here. I always loved this site for that.

I know that 5 weeks is very short time to expect any visible results, but I guess I did not make it clear that what I am most disappointed in is the OPTIMIZATION of the site part and the reports that as K.S. Katz says, should at least have baseline reports and an action plan.

I just do not have a good feeling about this person and I am not sure how much more time I should give them before deciding on abandoning the project all together or moving forward. All of your comments will help with this decision.

Thanks again for everyones input.

Many thanks,
Houston

[Jill]

Did you have a good feeling for them when you hired them? If not, why did you hire them?

Also, please note, there's a huge difference between black hat SEO and incompetent SEO. Whether your SEO falls into either of those camps is hard to say yet.

[nethy]

As a side issue, how involved & aware do you think that clients need to be about methods?
BTW, I'm not talking about disclosure so much as method. The assumption is that clients are particularly interested in being more aware then basic. I'm not talking about clients that understand the basics and hire an expert with specialist skills & I'm not talking about purposely concealing anything.

Jill, I assume that you are on the 'very aware' side. Natural since you deal in SEO education.

[Jill]

As a side issue, how involved & aware do you think that clients need to be about methods?

Since there are right and wrong methods (i.e., ones that can get you penalized), I think it's very important for any client to thoroughly understand the methods their SEO company is using.

If they won't tell you this, that's a big ole giant red flag, imo.

[nethy]

If they won't tell you this, that's a big ole giant red flag, imo.

Won't & don't are two different things here though.