Un-ethical Seo Jobs, I was offered an SEO job that seemed unethical Options

[Orpheus Descendi...]

I am a content copywriter/SEO specialist who recently moved to Ireland (where SEO has not quite caught on or up with the States regardless of the fact that Google has its EU headquarters here in Dublin).

As I have been looking for work, I was recently approached by a company for an SEM Media Specialist position. The position was being filled by a third party (I will call Company B ) for the top software company world wide (I will call them Company A ). Company B is a VERY reputable corporation in Europe, and they are hiring this SEM Media Specialist to consult for Company A's clients.

As the consultant, I would instruct clients how to optimize their websites, write content, help them devise a keyword strategy, and set them up with PPC accounts to advertise solely with Company A's search engine. All of the tools I would be using and instructing the clients to use would be Company A's. Since a recent study published in the Irish Times (I believe) showed that 80% of all search in Ireland and the UK is done with Company A's competition, which of course is Company G, this seems more than dubious on the part of Company A. The client (or end user) would be hiring me through Company B to 'instruct, consult and guide' them, so that once I've finished the scope of my contract, the client will have the tools and knowledge to continue their SEM work on their own.

I didn't even go so far as to ask whether or not the client would have full disclosure of my affiliations with Company A via Company B. Am I out of my mind to think that is just WRONG! Company A would be essentially duping smaller companies, who need solid SEM help and instruction, into using only one search engine for their paid advertising, and doing it on one of the least used SE's to begin with.

If I am right and this is just wrong, is there anything I can do to warn companies about not accepting this kind of consultancy? I know I was approached for certain reasons, and I know Company A would deny any such unethical business practices, and I certainly don't want to have a libel suit waged against me, but there has to be some way to warn start ups and other small companies that this is a potential problem. Most small companies will question smarmy sales pitches from slick SEO types, but these two companies are two of the most respected companies in the world.

I obviously turned down the offer.

[Copywriter39]

You did the right thing. Not only is it unethical, it seems as if the businesses could come back at you for being fraudulent. And the damage it would do to your reputation would be forever damaged.

[nethy]

Hold your horses.
Disclosure is one thing, IE they need to know who is behind things and why. But it is not unethical to work on behalf of a second tier company.

There is no ethical reason not to hire specialists to help your clients use your tools. It's not an independent consultant (who's advice would be not to use these tools or at least not solely these tools).

But you know, if Fox BC sent an advertising consultant, you'd expect them to sell Fox airtime & fox media packages. If you hire an Overture web analytics consultant, don't expect then to recommend switching to GoAn but expect to get more from Overture then you would have otherwise. If your bank sends a mortgage consultant to your house, they promote your bank's mortgages. I think that's clear to most people.

So when Microsoft sends an SEM specialist expect to be using Live. I doubt anyone will ignore the elephant in the room. It's just too big. When they say: "What about Google?" noone will expect you to say "Who?"

There is nothing unethical about selling, consulting & training in the use of MS Live tools. Even if they are no. 3.

BTW, its pretty normal practice for the 'other engines' Yahoo, Live etc. to hook up with local partners. Usually major local media companies with an established client base. Here in Oz IMO they have a JV going with a major media co (nine). This lets them give clients cross-platform campaigns. Their clients know and expect that they will be using tools/platforms/media etc. with which company A are partnered.

The company B on behalf of company A thing is not likely to be an under the table thing. especially if these are the behemoths that you're hinting at.

IMHO don't discount the job upfront.

This post has been edited by nethy: May 26 2008, 02:52 AM

[Orpheus Descendi...]

Nethy, thank you for your response. What you say makes absolute sense which is why I needed to ask the question. What I should have found out is if the clients would have complete awareness that they were getting a Company A SEM rep, because Copewriter39 has a valid point if that would not be the case.

I suppose it comes to down to a very fine line, because I talk up other companies' services all the time, but I do that because those services will have absolute value for the client regardless of my bias. If I were to be selling something I knew to be detrimental to the client's business, well then I suppose I might as well go out and sell cocaine for all the moral difference between the two actions. I couldn't do that job even now knowing that it isn't as unethical as I thought.

Thanks for the insights.

[Randy]

Two sides to the coin for sure!

On a personal level I probably wouldn't do it because I would have no control over what the client was being told during the sales pitch. If even one slipped through who hadn't been told of the affiliation --and assuming I was told not to mention other methods that might possibly more useful to the client-- it would drive me nuts.

But is it unethical? I don't think I could go that far. Nethy's points are spot on.

Personally I'd have said Thanks, but no thanks to such an offer. But by the same token I wouldn't necessarily think badly of anybody else who said Yes.

Gonna move this to Business Issues since it's not really an SEO no-no.

[MaKa]

Welcome to the forum Orpheus Descending, where about in Ireland are you based?

[Orpheus Descendi...]

Hi MaKa,

I've sent an email via your website. Please check it out!

Cheers to the Emerald Isle! (and the rain!)

[nethy]

I don't know. There is nothing really wrong with using YSM or Ad Centre.
Generally speaking, if there is good reason to use the then there is probably good reason to use Adwords too. The above is probably also true of tv advertising. If ads on station A are a good idea then ads on station B are good too.

I imagine most large 'accounts' do advertise on adwords as well. But then YSM & Live probably suit some advertisers better. Some big companies like to stick with fewer 'vendors. They may opt for the vendor that offers manged campaigns, partner with big media Cs's, etc. 'Part of this is the ability to get a consultant such as Orpheus Descending has declined to become, in to help. Google put up a take it or leave it package.Could be that there is a bit of "No one gets fired for buying an IBM" going on.

Its probably sticking to the way things used to be done when you should be moving forward. But either way, i wouldn't compare it to selling cocaine at a school. Maybe more like Mcdonalds. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif)

Not every consultant is (or should be) a macro strategy consultant.

Anyway, Orpheus Descending. Welcome to the Forum & Good Luck. I hope you enjoy Ireland & I'd be interested to see how things work out for you. I may be looking to go back there at some stage.

[Copywriter39]

Hold your horses.
Disclosure is one thing, IE they need to know who is behind things and why. But it is not unethical to work on behalf of a second tier company.

Perhaps I misinterpreted the question. I was assuming he was being asked to be a consultant, but only bring traffic to the smaller search engine without the client realizing this was being done. By no means did I mean it was unethical to represent the smaller company or even drive traffic to the site. I thought it seemed as if these facts were being kept from clients.

[Jill]

I didn't provide my thoughts on the original post because it was too unclear as to what exactly the job was. So don't feel bad, copywriter39. I still have no idea!

[nethy]

Maybe the term 'consultant' should be reserved for independent consultants.

I didn't provide my thoughts on the original post because it was too unclear as to what exactly the job was. So don't feel bad, copywriter39. I still have no idea!

My understanding is:

- Company A is an SE/content provider (M*****ft)
- Company B is a media company or ad agency.

- The advertisers are clients of Company B. The position is consulting to the clients on behalf of Company B that is partnered with Company A (and probably a suite of other publishers/broadcasters/etc.) on.

- Company G is Google
- One a side note, Company Y is running around looking crazy and telling everyone who will listen that they know what exactly what they're doing. Both A & B suspect that they do not.

**I assumed and guessed a lot so I may (probably) be way off track. I felt comfortable assuming though was that I tried to imagine the client saying "shouldn't we advertise on Google too?" and the consultant saying. "No-one uses them." Meanwhile, noone in dublin can find an engineer and Ultimate Frisbee is attempting to push Gaelic out of Croke Park.

This post has been edited by nethy: May 28 2008, 12:49 AM

[Orpheus Descendi...]

I am sorry for this being so convoluted, but I am as skittish as a kitten when it comes to naming names.

Nethy is right, company A is M*****t, but company B is not an ad agency or anything of the sort, Company B sells very sophisticated hardware systems and is a European giant in technology engineering, company B is (S****ns). They don't do advertising of any kind and they are not in the SEM sector as far as I know. (My younger brother used to be a software engineer for them when he lived here.) This is why I started to question the whole set up. I actually freelance for two ad agencies in Dublin, I understand how that works - this is different. Why is S*****ns sub-contracting for M*****t to create an SEM Media Specialist position to hawk MS PPC unless M doesn't want a direct relationship with the SEM Media Specialist?

As I say, I didn't stick around long enough to get all of the specifics for the position, I just got a very bad feeling and passed on the opportunity. It wasn't until I started to think about the businesses that would use this service that I thought 'ewe yuck, this can't be right?'

I hope that clarifies this a bit (without getting me in a vat of hot oil).

I felt comfortable assuming though was that I tried to imagine the client saying "shouldn't we advertise on Google too?" and the consultant saying. "No-one uses them." Meanwhile, noone in dublin can find an engineer and Ultimate Frisbee is attempting to push Gaelic out of Croke Park.

Offtopic

LOL!!! But this is a country where if you play soccer you are not allowed to play Gaelic and vice versa. (I kid you not my cousins have to make the decision before they start school which sport they will play for the rest of their lives! I have a cousin who is banned from both for playing both!) The Celtic Tiger has left this country backwards, forwards, upside down and sideways with a whole lot of foreign technology firms over laying a social structure that fundamentally believes in that which is mutually exclusive. I've learned not to assume that what is obvious to me is apparent to everybody - although I do agree that it would be absurd to think your scenario could happen.

I would love to see Ultimate Frisbee at Croke Park - me and the two other Californians who live in Dublin - with the 50,000 die harders protesting outside. (I assume you know the fight to keep soccer out of the stadium?)

[nethy]

Offtopic

I would love to see Ultimate Frisbee at Croke Park - me and the two other Californians who live in Dublin - with the 50,000 die harders protesting outside. (I assume you know the fight to keep soccer out of the stadium?)

I would keep that to yourself
.
My Dad & his friends used to have to hide (inner fields) to play soccer. No chance they could use the Gaelic pitch. They got found by the priest once & he beat the hell out of 'em'.

Company B sells very sophisticated hardware systems and is a European giant in technology engineering, company B is (S****ns). They don't do advertising of any kind and they are not in the SEM sector as far as I know.

That sounds strange, but I still wouldn't discount it. The whole internet media/technology markets are confused really. I suppose it'll level out eventually but for now there will be all sorts of weird stuff going on.

Reason for edit: added offtopic tag