Directory Or Link Farm?, What is the difference? Options

[Hippo]

I know that Yahoo and DMOZ are directories, not link farms.

I have also seen sites for which the sole purpose is to build a huge page (or pages) of links (usually reciprocal) and they are clearly link-farms. (Big no-no, right?)

If I build a website devoted to listing a bunch of websites that have something in common, am I building a directory? or a link-farm?

If I understand correctly, a link from a valid directory is good for my SEO, yet a link from a link farm could be detrimental.

I think I can tell the difference when I look at them, but how would a search engine know the difference?

Can anyone articulate what the primary difference is?

(Is it something real obvious, and I am just missing it?)

[OldWelshGuy]

Ok I will try

A link farm by my definition is where a group of sites or pages etc all post the same links to each other to push up page rank, a bit like a chain letter where you add your name to the list but in this case you do not remove the top name (as in chain letters).

So what you have is an identical list of url's being hosted on different servers all appearing to 'vote' for the others.

What you are proposing is a good resource for the web, which is what the web is all about, on page content, linking to other relevant on page content. If however each of those sites on your list hosted the very same page then you are farming links out.

I think thats about right .

[amabaie]

Ooh. Ooh. Let me try, too. If a link is reciprocal, it is not a genuine directory. That being said, Google has not yet figured out how to factor out reciprocal links.

I wonder what the real value of a DMOZ listing is. Yes, the home page has PR9, but consider http://dmoz.com/Society/People/Streetkids/.../North_America/, just as an example. It has PR0 (OK, it is probably more like 0.231). That is divided amongst 26 external links and 14 internal links (if I count well).

Of course, the DMOZ directory is reproduced hundreds of places on the Internet, so it does hold a lot of total value. And not all lisitngs are four levels deep. And it is Google's directory, too. But on its own, a directory listing might not be as big a PR booster as is commonly assumed.

OK folks. What obvious reality have I missed in making this assertion?

[SearchRank]

A directory is a web site that contains categorized web site listings whether it be general or related to a specific industry such as construction or web design or regional travel, etc.

A link farm exist for the sole purpose of trying to boost a site's link popularity. Usually they consist of a network of sites listed to one another or pages of endless uncategorized links. Many times they require a reciprocal link.

It is really the intended purpose. A directory exists to provide a useful resource to the end user whereas a link farm exists to help people boost their link popularity.

[Scottie]

Ooh.  Ooh.  Let me try, too.  If a link is reciprocal, it is not a genuine directory.

Sorry- I don't agree with this.

I run a few directories and the "payment" for being included is a link back.

What makes it a useful resource is that it is very, very narrowly themed (specific equiment rental, a specialized service) and easily helps people find the product or service in their area.

Most of these sites would never be found in a regular search. They have no incoming links and horrible, horrible things done wrong to their sites (IMO). Lots of bouncing, spinning graphics and pages titled "DEFAULT PG 1". Mostly homegrown sites. The link back typically means nothing to a search engine because they can't find it!

We only accept these specialized industry sites- if they do a bunch of other stuff, they don't get listed. It's human-edited, human-updated. Business owners find our forums or the directory and request a listing.

Funny thing is, since we launched the directories, competing "paid" directories have sprung up. They require a link back as well as a monthly fee. They don't have nearly the depth that ours do, and aren't as useful. So I have no problem requiring a link back as "payment". We also list businesses that don't have a website, no strings attached.

[Jill]

I run a few directories and the "payment" for being included is a link back.

Interesting. I was about to say that it's the required linking part of a directory that starts to put it in iffy territory.

But a link back to the directory isn't really the problem.

With link farms, it was always a requirement that everybody in the 'farm' list everyone else's page from the farm. You don't see this type as much any more, but that's what the original link farms were.

These days, who knows. I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between a directory and what some might call a link farm. If you don't have to put the farm on your own site somewhere, then I don't think it is a farm.

Jill

[Scottie]

The link back

1) Makes it fair to all. (My competitor doesn't link to you, so I'm not either... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mf_tongue.gif) )
2) Drives more traffic to the directory for the benefit of the entire industry.
3) Helps promote the industry overall.

We have over 350 sites listed in one directory- but very few backlinks show up. Doesn't mean they aren't counted though. And the new algo definitely sees it as an authority site, not a linking scheme.

[Bompa]

A directory is a web site that contains categorized web site listings whether it be general or related to a specific industry such as construction or web design or regional travel, etc.

A link farm exist for the sole purpose of trying to boost a site's link popularity. Usually they consist of a network of sites listed to one another or pages of endless uncategorized links. Many times they require a reciprocal link.

It is really the intended purpose. A directory exists to provide a useful resource to the end user whereas a link farm exists to help people boost their link popularity.

I've been researching the definition of "link farm". Being so well used, you'd think that we all would know exactly what it is. When I was a child, my older sister would often tell me, "never use a word that you don't understand". I think that would be good advice for some of the so-called experts online.

Anyway, it seems that "link farm" is originally a unix term for linking duplicate files or whatever...I'm not a unix person so I don't understand it in that context.

Regarding webmasters, everyone seems to define a link farm by it's purpose, "sole purpose is to increase SE rankings", or something similar. I think that's not a valid definition since Google has no way of determining "sole purpose" and neither do we. After all, I could start such a site with the sole purpose of earning money from a few advertisers, to hell with anyone's rankings. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) My point is that "purpose" is really a state of mind of the webmaster and that's a horrible way to define a site that is or could be a spam penalized site.

A good definition would pertain to the mechanics of the scheme, not the webmaster's intentions.

When I was new, I almost joined a linking scheme that offered me 500 links in one month. The idea was that I would download a set of pages, each was a certain catagory, such as, Internet.html, Society.html, etc. Each of these pages, ( I think it was about 50 pages), was filled with links, (other members). There was also in index.html page in the package. Naturally, I had to upload these to my site and link to the index.html, (having it in a certain subfolder).

So, by downloading this set of pages every month, I got on the other 500 members pages, see? We all got on everyone else's pages.

What this really is, is 500 webmasters running the exact same directory on their sites. Although the sites are different, the directory portion of each of the 500 sites are mirrors, perfect duplicates.

This is a good definition since it is so clear, that it is impossible to get involved with one of these schemes unknowingly and I suppose Google could detect these with relative ease.

Just my thoughts.

Bompa

[Debra]

My definition of link farming:

Sites artifically created, and used for the sole purpose of passing link pop and/or manipulating SE rankings. They are constructed and uploaded for this reason only and do not have any outside sites linking to them naturally.

[amabaie]

Regarding webmasters, everyone seems to define a link farm by it's purpose, "sole purpose is to increase SE rankings", or something similar. I think that's not a valid definition since Google has no way of determining "sole purpose" and neither do we.

I beg to disagree. A link farm is a link farm whether Google can recognize it or not. The minute an outbound link is placed on a site for anything other than the user's experience, it's a cash crop. How many carrots do you have to sell before you become a farmer is a fair question, of course. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Google can't prove that cCstro stuffs the ballot box, but that does not make Cuba a democracy.

What this really is, is 500 webmasters running the exact same directory on their sites. Although the sites are different, the directory portion of each of the 500 sites are mirrors, perfect duplicates.

This is a good definition since it is so clear, that it is impossible to get involved with one of these schemes unknowingly and I suppose Google could detect these with relative ease.

I'm not sure I would call this "link farming". I would call it a scroched earth policy. :doh:

[mcanerin]

Maybe what we are looking at is a reciprocal link + relevance density issue.

Yahoo links to me. If I link to Yahoo, does that make Yahoo a link farm? How about me?

What if I link to 50 sites, that all happen to be in Yahoo, or DMOZ? After all, I only link to quality sites and those would often be in one of those directories.

Oh, Oh, what if I downloaded the freely available DMOZ database and posted it on my site? Since the directories are identical, has a link farm been created? Is the Google directory a link farm?

I submit that the answer to these questions is no. But why not?

I run a helpful site on, oh, ant farms (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Naturally, I want to provide the best darn ant farm info around. Some of my collegues and associates have ant farm related sites - so I link to them. Since my site is wonderful too, they link to me. Awww, how nice... So now I'm in a link farm?

I submit that the measurable levels of relatedness combined with the levels of intra-directory cross-linking is the key.

I submit that if ALL the links are completely related to your site and NONE of the sites link to any of the other sites, this is a pure "non link farm"

On the other hand, if ALL the links are unrelated to your site and ALL the sites link to each other, this is a pure "link farm"

Naturally, most sites fall between these 2 extremes. I submit that once the levels rise above about 30% unrelated and 50% crosslinked you are into link farm territory. Naturally I just pulled these numbers out of someplace best left undiscussed, but perhaps they could be used as a starting point.

Discussion? Tomatoes? Spammer accusations?

Bring it on!

Ian

[Debra]

On the other hand, if ALL the links are unrelated to your site and ALL the sites link to each other, this is a pure "link farm

The links can be related or not, doesn't matter. What accounts for my definition is the way the sites are linked.

Yahoo links to me. If I link to Yahoo, does that make Yahoo a link farm? How about me?

'Course not. Individual sites with unique content make up Yahoo!. There is nothing artifical about that. Linking back to Yahoo! just means you're linking back to Yahoo! The sites in Yahoo! don't link to one another and then to Yahoo!.

Discussion? Tomatoes? Spammer accusations?

LOL - having fun tonight Ian?

The minute an outbound link is placed on a site for anything other than the user's experience, it's a cash crop.

Think about it from a marketing and community service standpoint. I don't always link out to provide my users with a complimentary product. Sometimes it's to show I support a local charity, business or joke of the day. It's not all about the user. It's about being a well rounded website.

One last thing about the directories. If the directory is small and just getting started, asking for a link back is probably more about promoting the site than looking for link pop. I just can't find a correlation between link farm and directory here........

[wayne h]

A link farm is a bit like what is said about pornography.

A person might not be able to define it, but everyone knows it when they see it. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

A link farm is like that. You certainly can tell one when you stumble over one.

A legitimate directory doesn't have the look and feel of a link farm. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It also doesn't fill your inblox with spam! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I always recommend staying away from link farms and other bad neighbourhoods. Google doesn't like them, and neither should we.

Let's toss tomatoes! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)

Wayne Hurlbert

[Hippo]

I must say, this topic has really taken off more than I thought it would.

Overall, I agree with the fact that the "intention" should not be the defining factor. I think all of us know one when we see it. Yet, what I am looking for is the search engine's viewpoint.

I appreciate your comments on how a search engine may note the difference. Does anyone have any other thoughts on how a search engine could tell?

[Hungryfish]

You all are the best:

For some , this is a very good learning experiance for people not in touch or up to date on this "Unique technique". I must say all of you have great input on this subject....Thanks
jb