Site Maps, Wyy so highly valued ? Options

[webkid_san]

This is a new site I have been working ... so I am not even hoping to get listed on Google any time soon ... as for MSN and Yahoo, they have picked up the site and is rankign pretty good (keeping my fingers crossed here) ... now my issue is - Yahoo likes my "sitemap" page a lot because for what ever keywords I am getting ranked its the sitemap that shows up ... I dont mind that as long as it shows up ... and even on "Google Site Maps" it says my site map has the highest PageRank - I am not sure why "site map" is getting so much respect ... if you are wondering whats on the site map page ... its a standard site map with links to all the pages on the site and I have made it pretty detailed with title and description of the pages its linking to ... so it definitly ends up having lots of keywords too ...

[Michael Martinez]

Site maps, when linked to by every page on the site (which is the best way to do it), naturally accrue a lot of link popularity/PageRank/whatever.

That a site map should be ranked first in search results is unusual, as an extensive site map is relevant to a lot of different expressions and should not earn a very high relevance score for much of anything.

[qwerty]

...an extensive site map is relevant to a lot of different expressions and should not earn a very high relevance score for much of anything

I'm not sure what you mean by that, Michael. Any page that contains more than a repeating collection of three or four words is relevant to a lot of different expressions, but a site map should be less relevant to any given expression than the page it's pointing to on the site. That is, assuming you're using keywords in the anchor text pointing to a given page, the keywords will be on the site map, but not to the extent that they will be on that page, and the anchor text on the site map will help to push the other page's relevance for the phrase.

In other words, if my site map has

cat food --> link to page about cat food
cat toys --> link to page about cat toys
dog food --> link to page about dog food
dog toys --> link to page about dog toys

...then the site map has a certain degree of relevance for dog, cat, food, toys, dog food, cat food, dog toys, and cat toys, but unless you've done an absolutely awful job of optimizing those other pages, the site map shouldn't rank above any of them for any of those phrases. However, the reason for that isn't that the site map is relevant to many keywords. It's that the other pages, which are also somewhat relevant to many different queries, are more relevant than the site map is.

[Catz]

Have you added a description of the pages in your site, along with the links in the site map? Perhaps this could be making your site map rank so well.

Take a look at the quality of the pages being linked to from the site map, perhaps you could make some improvements to them that would help them rank better as well.

[webkid_san]

I do have added the description on the site map (brief one though) there is another thing I have noticed is that the site map has a lot of text because of the title and description but the pages them self does not have that much of text ... what it has is very relevant text but in comapared to the site map and also the site map has lots of links with relevant anchor text that is linking to the internal pages ... I am not sure if thats why Yahoo is giving more value to the site map than the other pages ... does it make any sense?

[webkid_san]

awful job of optimizing those other pages, the site map shouldn't rank above any of them for any of those phrases

Hey qwerty, are you saying I did an "awful" job in optimizing the other pages (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/cry_smile.gif) I am all heart broken (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Actually I think the problem is that the phrases are kind of general that I cannot have just one page dedicated to the phrase, the phrase(s) had to be used on the other pages too e.g. - just an example - if its "online high school courses", the content through out the site will be using this phrase.

[qwerty]

Well, it should definitely tell you that you're doing something wrong if your sitemap is your top ranking page for any phrase that doesn't include "sitemap".

[webkid_san]

The most probable thing I can think of right now is the how many times the keyword is used on the actual page and the site map, Site map definitly using quite a few keywords and the page itself has keyword as much as it should have so that it read well ...

[Michael Martinez]

I'm not sure what you mean by that, Michael. Any page that contains more than a repeating collection of three or four words is relevant to a lot of different expressions, but a site map should be less relevant to any given expression than the page it's pointing to on the site....

What I mean is that a properly done site map isn't about anything except all the pages that it links to. Presumably, it uses anchor text to link to each page (I did specify properly done but someone may want to jump in with exceptions) as in the examples you provided.

Well, if we just squeeze all that text together, it should look largely like nonsense. There may be some vague semblance to relevance to the human mind, but I'm pretty sure it's algorithmically more difficult for a site map's on-page text content to look like it's a focused discussion about a specific topic than it is for a natural content page's on-page content to look that way.

Relevance is the key word, of course. I don't pretend to know how the search engines measure relevance. I just know that I rarely see site maps show up at the top of search results listings.

If anything a site map matching your example might just look like spam. In which case, it should trigger a filter and not be listed highly.

I'm not sure I would want the site map to ever show up first for a specific result.

I do have added the description on the site map (brief one though) there is another thing I have noticed is that the site map has a lot of text because of the title and description but the pages them self does not have that much of text ... what it has is very relevant text but in comapared to the site map and also the site map has lots of links with relevant anchor text that is linking to the internal pages ... I am not sure if thats why Yahoo is giving more value to the site map than the other pages ... does it make any sense?

I have seen a few site maps where people add descriptions. Sometimes it seems to make sense to do so, so I won't say that is wrong. But I think you do run the risk of making the site map look less like a site map (to an algorithm) and more like a natural content page when you add descriptive text.

From the usability point of view, a site map's listings should be self-explanatory. People usually include liberal anchor text to make the links's destinations immediately obvious to visitors. There are some sites where I go straight for the site map, if one is available, because the rest of the navigation just sucks.

A site map should, in my opinion, be as plain and simple as possible without being ugly or departing from the basic design of the Web site.

[Catz]

Many times I do exactly the same thing Michael does, go directly to the site map because you should be able to quickly find exactly what you are looking for, even if the site navigation is not the greatest.

Many times it is a good way to find pages that are not being linked to directly as well...it's a great resource for those sites that have them.

[Jill]

and even on "Google Site Maps" it says my site map has the highest PageRank - I am not sure why "site map" is getting so much respect ..

I would look towards your internal linking structure. There's probably a clue there. Either that or a buncho people linked to your sitemap!

[webkid_san]

I was checking the Google Site Map, apparently they updated the info so ... this month the home page has the highest PR however in Dec and Jan the site map had a better PR ... oh well I am still not sure why Yahoo lieks the site map except whats discussed earlier ... thanks all for the feedback though

[ewo]

While we're figuring out why this particular site map is so highly ranked, in comparison with the other pages, could I ask a wider question about the value of sitemaps in general, both within and without the context of SEO? Namely, what is their value?

[Randy]

I assume we're talking about normal site maps here. Not the kind you slap in a file and submit to the engines.

From the user perspective a well constructed site map can help them to find what they're looking for. Especially if it's a large site. The key being that the site map is well constructed, breaks things down into logical categories and uses anchor text or text snippets that describe the destination page really well.

Sort of a quick reference the user can scan to find what they're looking for.

For the engines, the main advantage is probably that a site map can help them find the pages you want to have spidered. Again with large sites it can also bring deeper pages closer to the home page. Meaning instead of some page being 4 or more clicks from the home page via normal drilldown navigation, having a link to the same page from a site map can bring it up to as few as 2 clicks from the home page.

You can also of course use the anchor text to send a clear signal to the engines regarding the subject matter of the destination page.

The neat part is that a well constructed site map can serve both purposes quite well. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ewo]

Gotcha, I think.

Could you point me in the direction of a really good, in your opinion, site map; just so I can be certain that I understand this?