How Do Search Engines Treat Punctuation? Options

[KSA]

I'm working with someone in St. John's.

I notice that he has different SE rankings depending on whether the search is for St. John's or St Johns

So, it seems as if the search engines do see the punctuation as different searches. Any ideas on the best way to optimize the site so that it ranks regardless of whether the punctuation is used or not?

I can put both spellings in the keywords, but the content of the page really needs to read St. John's to make sense to the visitors.

Any ideas would be welcome!

Thanks,

Kathleen

[Tom Philo]

As a general rule, any punctuation is seen as a "space".
And, as a general rule, this does not apply to an _ which is seen as a valid character by most engines so that word1_word2 is seen as a single long word while word1-word2 word1!word2 word1%word2 etc are all seen as the same set of two different words.

[KSA]

As a general rule, any punctuation is seen as a "space".

So, would it be a good idea to include st john s in the keywords also? or will that be handled by st. john's?

[Jill]

Any ideas on the best way to optimize the site so that it ranks regardless of whether the punctuation is used or not?

If you want to effectively compete on both forms of the word, I'm afraid you would have to use it both ways on your pages.

You could use it the correct way on most pages, but reserve some inner page to perhaps use it incorrectly. If this is not an option (and I can totally understand if it's not...I wouldn't personally do it either) then I would simply suggest purchasing ads for the incorrect spelling and leave it at that.

Yes, you can put it incorrectly in your Meta keyword tag, but at best that might marginally help you in Yahoo, and that's assuming all the other pages are using only the correct form.

Oh, and apostrophes are NOT seen as a space as far as I know.

Periods, commas, yeah, but not apostrophes. Those appear to be seen as part of the word.

[KSA]

Jill,

Thanks for the response. That's what I was afraid of. So, we'll just hope that people doing the search are fanatical about punctuation.

A search on Google shows the same # of sites found, regardless of the spelling. But, the site isn't currently ranked on Google.

On MSN, there are a lot more sites found when you use the punctuation. And, the site's ranking is MUCH different on MSN depending on whether you use the punctuation or not.

On Yahoo, there are a lot more sites found when you use the punctuation. And, the site's ranking is SLIGHTLY different on Yahoo depending on whether you use the punctuation or not.



I just love these search engines. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Kathleen

[randfish]

KSA - Your goal should probably be to not only put them both on the page, but to seek anchor text in your off-site links that contain both versions in order to maximize your potentials.

I do note that the searches are producing some fairly different results:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2c...johns+vacations
vs.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=st+john%27s+vacations

including a seemingly higher CTR for the advertisers on St Johns (without the apostrophe)... very interesting.

[KSA]

seek anchor text in your off-site links that contain both versions in order to maximize your potentials.

Thanks! That's a great idea. Sometimes you get so embroiled in a problem you can't see the forest for the trees.

And, aren't the results weird? First time I ever worked with a keyword that had punctuation in it. And, it is.... very interesting.

Kathleen

[amabaie]

At the bottom of the home page, you can place a disclainer:

"For those of you who mistakenly searched for "St Johns", we love you too. Spell it St. John's or St Johns, either way this is where it is at.

Does that help?

[KSA]

David,

Another great idea! I love this forum. Thanks for the post.

Kathleen

[RiYo]

Dear Randfish,

You mention "including a seemingly higher CTR for the advertisers on St Johns (without the apostrophe)... very interesting. "

How can you see what the CTR is for a search? Are you using a programm for this, or am I missing something? (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/search.gif)

[Enrico]

A follow up question for the group: If one were to place both "John's" and "John s" on the same page, wouldn't that make the density of the phrase run too high on pages that recognize both?

[Jill]

Welcome Enrico! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

wouldn't that make the density of the phrase run too high on pages that recognize both?

Too high for what?

If it reads well, you can have a 100% density as far as the search engines are concerned.

[amabaie]

Too dense? Dayton is too densely populated. But that's OK, because Boston is more densely populated. No problem, New York City is still more densely populated. But it's really OK, because Mexico City is even more densely populated. Sure, it's too dense, but just wait a few years and see what happens. If it works, it's not too dense.

[Mauricio]

This thread has solved many questions I had. Thanks!

But what about Accentuation?
There aren't many English words with accents, but there are lots of them in Spanish, Portuguese, French...

Does anyone know how Accentuation influences search results?

[randfish]

You can see the higher CTRs because the advertisers have the blue box ads at the top for the one and just the sidebar for the other. CTRs have to be quite high for Google to put that blue box up top with ads - if there aren't any ads getting the high CTR, they put them all on the sidebar.