Wordtracker, ? Options

[well]

Hi

Today for the first time i used Wordtracker in looking after some keyword phrase that didn't appear (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lmao.gif) ( the key didn't drooped)
anyway the phrase combine from 2 words and sounds like "name of area- wedges" for example.
for the specific famous 'area' Google given 2,000,000 pages in return , but in wordtracker when i looked at the detailed i got confused :
its got so many option : (examples)
New york
or NEW YORK
or New York or new york and many more combination -that all off them give that:


Nos, KEI Analysis, Count, 24Hrs, Competing, Keyword
===================================================

1, 0.764, 917, 340, 1100000, ---
2, 0.085, 308, 114, 1110000, ---
3, 0.011, 111, 41, 1100000, ---
4, 0.001, 24, 9, 1100000, ---
5, 0.000, 2, 1, 1100000, ---
6, 0.000, 4, 1, 1100000, --
7, 0.000, 6, 2, 1100000, ---
8, 0.000, 13, 5, 1100000, ---


About the KEI (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
well -the wedges itself is not existing yet
-but the idea is really thrilled ! :halo:
No ads existing in that 'place' return pages so its look really empty and pioneering..
how that figures look to you ?
Is it too small numbers for traffic ?
Should i go just for the Gogle ads and live the SEO long prosses aside ?
any advice from your experience with wordtracker ?
The KEI is really so important ?
whats concern as the average convert rate between traffic amount and actually sales ?
Any help would be very appreciated

[Jill]

Forget KEI, it doesn't tell you anything that's of much use.

Jill

[Randy]

A quickie thought...

Just because a certain phrase doesn't have 40 million searches per month doesn't mean you should ignore it. A good case in point from something we did a few weeks ago.

We got a request for a Halloween <insert gift item>. Now, we'd never offered these items for specifc holidays before, but it was a good suggestion so we whipped some up real quick. And I stuck up a blurb on a What's New page stating that we'd just added "Halloween <gift>".

Now, that particular phrase would not have shown up at all in any of the keyword suggestion places. I know I looked. Let alone show that it had big enough numbers to optmize for.

Funny thing is, our site went to number 1 and number 2 for any search close to what we offered over the course of a week or so. And from the minimal tracking I had set up, that one little phrase, the one nobody would ever optimize for, converted very well into sales. I havne't looked closely at the numbers yet, but my best guess is that something like 1 in 20 who hit our site looking for our gift idea bought from us.

So while the total number of searches was miniscule beyond belief when compared to the main search terms we target, we pocketed almost $2,000 in profits without having to try very hard. That's not bad pay for about 3 hours work. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

I can hardly wait for next Halloween!

[well]

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)


I hope my idea will last for more then few weeks, - and your story did brings the logic.
and Jill - if the KEI is no good to look at, what your advice about using the service ? -what is the important DATA to concern when working with Wordtracker ?
the numbers in the Wordtracker is reallistic ?
How much they match to what people typed in the search engines ? (50 % - 75% -100% ? )
-Thanks

This post has been edited by well: Nov 10 2003, 12:36 AM

[Randy]

I'm not Jill obviously, but...

I use Wordtracker to help identify keyword phrases that I might not normally think of. My experience has been that the number of searches they provide can be helpful. Not necessarily 100% factual, especially since everything is always in a state of flux and change. However it does give you a good feel for which are most popular and likely to be used by searchers.

For my part, I completely ignore both KEI and the number of competing sites. I don't feel either of those are factual enough to be of much use.

[Jill]

What Randy said.

Look at the relative position of keyword phrases.

Plus, forum members Sharon & Roy have a nice way of helping to judge competition in Google.

You type in the Google search box:

allintitle: your keyword phrase

And you'll see how many pages are potentially optimized for that phrase (because they all are using it in their Title tag).

Good luck!

Jill

[Alan Perkins]

Now, that particular phrase would not have shown up at all in any of the keyword suggestion places.

Seasonal searches don't! Think about it... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[well]

Hi

Jill, Randy, Alan


Now i have more clarity about how to wordtracker it.. -thank you !

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/zz.gif)

[Randy]

Granted Alan. That's why I didn't even bother to look. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) I was only using that as an example of why you shouldn't ignore these low traffic phrases. I optimize for all of 'em I can think of.

On the other hand, it's always nice when you do something specifically "for the customer" and it pays off immediately.

[Leann_Pass]

Hi Allan,

I use Wordtracker on a routine basis. I agree that you cannot put much faith in the KEI analysis.

First of all, it will tell you that a keyword phrase is GREAT even though only 1 or 2 searches are recorded for it, simply because it has no competition. I personally don't want to waste my time optimizing for a keyword phrase that is not likely to be searched on.

Secondly, Make sure your keyword phrases make sense, regardless! Wordtracker or others can give you weird feed back. (just as example) If 'zit cream alaska' is more highly searched on than 'zit cream' or 'zit cream arizona' it doesn't really mean you should optimize for it. If you don't offer zit cream for the good folks in alaska then it would waste your time completely to optimize for their traffic, after all sales are the real bottom line.

If you do offer it in arizona then by all means you should optimize for arizona, even if they search less! Of course, you could always take that info and see what you can do to get that zit cream to the people in alaska =).

Just be smart with your keyword choices....Wordtracker is a good starting point.

Plus, forum members Sharon & Roy have a nice way of helping to judge competition in Google.

You type in the Google search box:

allintitle: your keyword phrase

And you'll see how many pages are potentially optimized for that phrase (because they all are using it in their Title tag).

I personally disagree with the allintitle search for finding your competition.
You will leave major competitors out of the mix and you will include many sites that couldn't compete if they were paid to.

Any site within the top 30 or so results should be, at least, considered: Check to see if they have many backlinks with the competed for keyword phrases in their text? Do they have particularly keyword rich content?

Just because it isn't in the title, doesn't mean they aren't actively competing!
Sharon and Roy (above mentioned) are constantly discussing the fact that backlinks are IT.

Using the allintitle search leaves out those who have gained top positions solely or mostly through backlinks (which they discuss on a regular basis) and therefore wouldn't satisfy the need to know who is competing.

There are many holes in the allintitle theory.

Competition should be given more consideration, in my opinion. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ldcdc]

Well... I have a few thinks to say about that KEI factor.

1. It's useless for little searched keyphrases (as some already noted here)
2. It's also useless for highy competitive keywords
3. It's not an accurate measure in any case. The formula is just too simple. There are lots of things to be measured to assess with enough precision a complicated thing like "keyword effectiveness".
4. I don't like the guy who invented it. [EDIT] Note that it doesn't mean he's not a smart guy.

[EDIT]

I will not go public, but if you're interested in knowing more about this guy, PM me and I'll tell you what I know about him and his website(s). And I do know quite a few things, trust me.

Well... I just can't understand why a serious company like FirstPlace Software (who runs Wordtracker.com) doesn't either remove that tool or enhance it (change the formula).

This post has been edited by Jill: Nov 11 2003, 12:54 AM

[Jill]

Dan, we're not into calling people names here.

By the way, First Place Software has nothing to do with WordTracker, and certainly doesn't run it!

Jill

[well]

One+two more :
(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/crossfingers.gif)

If that two words phrase product is not even searched for ,and each one of the words by itself has many pages optimize for-

1- would it considered as a waste of time to optimised for ?
2-i know its sounds theoretically, but your experience : a new nice selling product - how long it will take until someone will copy the idea and be there as a competitive ?
(40-60$ product )
3- how would you weight the wordtracker 24 HRS visits estimations ?

thanks.

[ldcdc]

Dan, we're not into calling people names here.

By the way, First Place Software has nothing to do with WordTracker, and certainly doesn't run it!

It was my mistake to call him like I did. And you're right about First Place Software. I feel so silly. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/clown2.gif)

[Randy]

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to Build Your Brand to me. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) There are some threads around here about doing that. So...

1.) I wouldn't consider that a waste of time, because if done correctly it can turn out to be a quite lucrative long-term marketing plan.

2.) Somewhere between 1 week and 1 year. But it's always a good thing if you're the first. You can create the market and make your site the most Authoritative in the market. I wouldn't worry about that because competition is a good thing. It keeps you sharp and makes you keep improving your site.

3.) I don't really pay attention to the projected traffic numbers, only the ratio between one keyword phrase and another. But that's just me.

Brief add... Someone in another thread here (Ian? MakeMeTop? I can't remember or I'd attribute the source) posted a very unique and quite correct working theory. Something I've borrowed in my own thinking because they're right!

In the end, if your goal is to make it onto the first page of the SERP's it doesn't really matter if there are only 250 or 40,000,000 pages which contain your chosen search phrase. You're not really competing with those 250 or 40 million. Instead, you're always competing with the top 10 sites. No matter how many competing sites Wordtracker says there are, you're still only competing with 10 sites if your goal is to get on the first page, as it should be.

<Edit Scottie says Mel let the above cat out of the bag, and I think she's right>

This post has been edited by Randy: Nov 11 2003, 10:56 PM