Niche Sites And Adsense Resources, Randy's post follow up Options

[alexi]

Randy made a post in another thread that made a lot of sense regarding creating niche sites as a way to create multiple streams of income. This is something that I have been interested in for a while. I do currently have several sites, but they are in related fields. I wouldn't consider them "niche" sites, because they are in rather competitive areas.

I like the idea of slowly building sites to help diversify and bring in more income, but I don't really know where to start, how adsense works, etc. I have a lot of questions, like how many people searching for a product is enough to make it worthwhile without being too many, making it too competitive? How can I come up with product/subject ideas?

Are there any resources, websites, e-books, etc that you can recommend that might have some answers/ be a good resource for someone who is interested in learning more about niche marketing?

Thanks!

[mal4mac]

Adsense is really easy to get started with. You can access it through the Google home page.

[Randy]

oooooh, I feel a long one coming on. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

I don't do Adsense myself alexi, so I'm not going to be much help on that front. I probably should have it up on all of my information-only sites, but it's something I don't have time to do right plus it messes up my design/layout. Or maybe I'm just lazy. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

FWIW, when I talk about a niche I do so very loosely. The niche can often be a small part of a very competitive market, where you're only targeting very specific searchers. To give you an example, Torka recently mentioned a client or friend who makes a decent income by concentrating on a very narrowly focused niche in the Arts & Crafts market. So while the average person may look at the site and say it's in the competitive Arts & Crafts field, it's really not.

Same with a friend of mine who sells designer prom/homecoming dresses. Dress/Garments is extremely competitive. For that matter the prom/homecoming dress markets are both very competitive. But the designer prom/homecoming dress market, which still quite saturated, is considerably less competitive.

Of course it doesn't hurt that her site has been optimized well enough that 9 times out of 10 it ranks better than the site of the dress designers. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) It also doesn't hurt that the designers will not sell to the general public.

The trick is really what you do with it on your end when you're talking about niches within a larger market. Even in saturated markets you can usually still find a niche within the market you can do quite well with.

As to my approach, it's a simple one.

When I look at a market my initial goal is for the site to make only $1,000 per month in profit. That's not much. And I've found that when you break it down to this level most people say: Yeah, I can do that!

It's also not much to live on though isn't it?

But what if you had just 5 or 10 of these little $1,000 per month sites? Most people can manage to live on 5-10k per month. And you probably already have 5 sites, so you know it's not that tough to create or run them.

FWIW, I tend to drastically under estimate the income potential on purpose when I'm first looking at a market. This way I'm always pleasantly surprised when each site ends up making $2,000, $3,000 or $5,000 per month.

The hardest part, as you've said, is identifying the niche in the first place. IMO it's always best to start with something that interests you. So start there if you can. Even if the markets for stuff you like is over saturated, give it some thought and see if you can identify an under-served niche within the market. There are usually at least one or two in any market.

Beyond that, it kind of depends upon if you want to go after something in the Services sector or in the Products sector.

In my experience, Services are much more difficult initially because you really need a unique service or a unique take on an existing service. Services usually requires at least some development on the front end too, which means time and money investment before you can even start marketing. Plus, before you start any of this development you have to identify a real need and do a bit of market research to see if your improvements are something people would pay for.

That said, Services are actually my personal preference. Partly because you're dealing with as close as possible to a 100% profit margin from every sale, and partly because there are no shipping/delivery issues.

For product stuff, unless you're going to make the product yourself you're going to need to identify a good supplier or two. Good supplier in my book means not only do I get really good pricing, but also I want them to drop ship for me. I do not want to have to deal with pre-buying a bunch of inventory or have to take time out of my day to play The Shipping Department. Been there, done that. It's nice to have my dining room back!

For product stuff where you're looking for a supplier/drop shipper Chris Malta's Drop Ship Source Directory is probably the best out there for getting started. It's kept reasonably up to date and they have a ton of different stuff in there.

Sure it costs a little bit, but it's not too bad. Especially if you're just getting started, it's worth the cost IMO so that you don't have to spend a lot of time identifying manufacturer's or suppliers and then negotiating a drop ship agreement with them.

An added bonus if you don't already have a specific product line in mind is that you can scan through the lists of products/categories until you find something that strikes your fancy, then do your research to see if the market is viable or not.

As far as your question about eBooks regarding niche marketing, I've never read one that was worth its cost. Lots of theory, but not enough real world guidance. Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll find a spare month to write something to detail what I do from Step A thru Z when I putting up a new site.

[alexi]

Randy, Thanks for your thorough reply. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

FWIW, when I talk about a niche I do so very loosely.  The niche can often be a small part of a very competitive market, where you're only targeting very specific searchers. 

That really makes sense. The market I'm in now is rather broad. My main site sells lots of items within one broad market, so I can optimize for LOTS of different things, but that takes lots of work and $. But what you are saying, for example, is, say I wanted to sell toys. That is obviously way too broad and over saturated. But if I could find one particular toy or kind of toys, that might be a good market, and I would build a site just selling that toy or kind of toys. The trick would be to find a niche that is not too saturated. Now, say I have found a product. I can drop ship it, it is not too terribly competitive and the sites carrying it are not well optimized. I see that 250 people a month searched for that specific product on Overture. That is not that many. But is it enough to make it worth while? How would you determine that?

When I look at a market my initial goal is for the site to make only $1,000 per month in profit.  That's not much.  And I've found that when you break it down to this level most people say: Yeah, I can do that! 
It's also not much to live on though isn't it?
But what if you had just 5 or 10 of these little $1,000 per month sites?  Most people can manage to live on 5-10k per month. 

Definitely I could live on that. The position I am in now is that I have built up my business to be able to stay at home with our toddler and as of a month ago, a newborn. But my ultimate goal is for my husband to be able to do the same. In order to do that, we need to ad income, AND diversify. I would be too scared to depend on one site/market for BOTH of our incomes.

In my experience, Services are much more difficult initially because you really need a unique service or a unique take on an existing service.

I agree! I can't even begin to think of a service I could offer online that wouldn't consume all of my time...

For product stuff, unless you're going to make the product yourself you're going to need to identify a good supplier or two.  Good supplier in my book means not only do I get really good pricing, but also I want them to drop ship for me.  I do not want to have to deal with pre-buying a bunch of inventory or have to take time out of my day to play The Shipping Department.  Been there, done that.

Me too, and I won't go back. I actually ended up selling my site and product before I opened when I realized how very time consuming it would be to ship and keep inventory. AT the time, I found out I was expecting baby #2 and realized I was crazy to think I could do that. Fortunately I found a quick buyer (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif)

Thanks for the drop shipping source. I have been wanting to find a good source that isn't scammy.

Really, thanks for sharing. I do think you should write that book!

I have read about XSite Pro as a tool for building websites for niche markets because it allows people like me (who don't know much programming) to build sites quickly. (Of course while adding UNIQUE content and products.) Any thoughts on that? I currently use Front Page 2003.

[mal4mac]

I'm still on FrontPage 2000 and it's fine for what I do. Some Microsoft haters say it mangles the HTML code, but it stopped doing that after FrontPage 98. I use it in HTML mode as much as I do WYSIWYG mode - that's worth doing to keep the code clean. But WYSIWYG can save time when creating a page, so having both is great. I find the preview mode is also useful, it really does look like what I get in IE. So those three modeas make FP a difficult product to beat, I feel, and make it a much better choice than the niche creation products.

(The link consolidation & web site publication features are also pretty good in FP).

I've just obtained the FP2003 trial. Did anyone upgrade from 2000 to 2003. Is it worth it?

You don't need to know programming to create sites - but knowing a little HTML really helps. You don't have to know much HTML (if any) to get started, and you can learn as you go along. Taking what FrontPage gives you, and polishing it, is a good way to learn

[Randy]

I have read about XSite Pro as a tool for building websites for niche markets because it allows people like me (who don't know much programming) to build sites quickly. (Of course while adding UNIQUE content and products.) Any thoughts on that? I currently use Front Page 2003.

My honest opinion?

I've been telling people that their best bet is probably to use Yahoo Stores. No technical knowledge required for the most part and you get a shopping cart, stats, hosting, etc for a single fee. Plus they have some pretty flexible plans so that you can start out with as little as $40 per month expense, and let it increase as you need more.

Plus, as a Y! store merchant you get some pretty hefty discounts on PPC, etc if you want to go that route at all. And if you feel the need to build a little trust, you can even advertise the fact that you're an Official Yahoo Store. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Other than that, I really don't have a software recommendation. One is probably about as good as the next. But if you use the same software the 2nd time that you did the first time it should go a lot faster.

[Chris B]

Hi Alexi,

I just started to use xsitepro about a month ago and very pleased with it. I dont have much tech. knowledge and didnt have the time it took for me to learn all i needed to know about front page. i was using a similar sitebuilding software but this one gives me more flexibility and control on how i want to design the sites. and it has quite a few very time saving features built into it. you cant go wrong with it.

you have to decide on exactly how you are going to monetize the site. If you plan on selling quite a few products, then yahoo stores could be better but if you are planning on selling an ebook or just being an affiliate, then xsp is a great way to go.



All the best,

Chris

[mal4mac]

Be careful you don't spend all your time looking at different web site creators - there are thousands out there, you could spend a lifetime doing it. If you are getting on OK with frontpage 2003, why not continue with it? It is flexible enough to create sites without you having to delve too much into HTML, or you can code purely in HTML inside FP if you want to. There are many FP books - for absolute beginners or experts. There are many forums that will help you. You already paid good money for it, so why not give it a good chance before exploring other options? If you hit a real limitation to FP then you can ask if anything else out there gets you past the limitation.

[alexi]

I find FP to be fairly easy to use, and pretty fast once I get my home page designed (and then just create a dynamic template), so there probably wouldn't be much real advantage of me learning XSite if it doesn't have any special advantages. Mal4mac, I have only used 2003, so I can't compare to any earlier versions.

That being said, I have not had to set up a shopping cart before. If I do want to sell products online, a Yahoo store may be worth looking into (though I hate to pay a sales %). Does anyone know Yahoo stores are search engine friendly? Are thye flexible as far as the design?

And now back to my original topic on niche marketing...I have lots of ideas on things to sell, but struggle with trying to figure out what markets are too competive, if there is enough demand, etc. Are there any guidelines any of you use when determining how many searches are enough, how many competing websites are too many, etc?

Thanks for all of the input so far (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[rohgan03]

. I see that 250 people a month searched for that specific product on Overture. That is not that many. But is it enough to make it worth while? How would you determine that?

Thats seems way to small to me. Are you looking at a PPC model? If so, then think about how many of those you will get to your site....then think of 1%CTR....thats about 2 clicks if you get all 250 visitors...at 10 cents a click you will make 20 cents a day or $6 for the month.

[alexi]

Thats seems way to small to me. Are you looking at a PPC model? If so, then think about how many of those you will get to your site....then think of 1%CTR....thats about 2 clicks if you get all 250 visitors...at 10 cents a click you will make 20 cents a day or $6 for the month.

I'm a little confused by this statement. Are you talking about adsense here? I actually was talking about selling the product. I was trying to see if anyone had advice on how many serches for a specific product are enough to consider selling it. (Sorry if I was confusing-I did mention adsense in my first post, but the thread has evolved more toward finding a niche market.)

[rohgan03]

Well conversions to sale will be similar around 1% or so.

Also you would need to see what kind of compeition is there....you need one good competitor to take your sales away. Do you have a reson why people should buy from your niche site? I personally think Karons [url=http://www.highrankings.com/copywritingcourse]Copywriting Course[/url] is a must if you are going to be selling products online.

[alexi]

Well conversions to sale will be similar around 1% or so.

Is that necessarily true of any specific product? I have a lot to learn on this. My thoughts are that one advantage of a niche market is that your audience is very targeted, so sales conversions may be higher. Also, that it would be easier to optimize because competition is lower. Are those fair assumtions? I know 250 searches for a product may be too few...I would think there would be several determining factors including how much competiton is out there and profit potential per item. That is what I am trying to figure out-how to balance all of those things to see if a particular item or group of items is worth selling.

[rohgan03]

Average Conversion Rates by Industry Vertical

[Randy]

Too much to respond to at one time, and I'm tired! Been at this for coming up on 15 hours today. So some quick hits.

• 250 unique searches (as opposed to hits) per month: It depends. Are you selling something so specialized and costly that 2-5 sales per month is all you need? If so, then it's a good idea. If you make $10 profit per sale, it may not be enough.
• 250 unique searches per month part deux: Are you going to only optimize for a single phrase? If you are, you're wasting your time to begin with. Quick example. Main phrase says it'll bring 250 searches per month on XYZ search engine. 10 related searches will bring another 750, making the total 1,000. Is that enough for closely related phrases? It's a start since I never stop at 10 or 11 phrases.
• 1% conversion ratio: All I can say is that those who are getting either have really, really sucky copy or are getting non-qualified traffic. My sites all convert at a pace that is well over 1%.

On that last note, from my mailbox earlier todayMarketing Experiments, which has been mentioned here before, is holding a free teleconference this coming Wednesday afternoon (4pm EST) on the subject of increasing conversions. I'm sure it's probably a subscriber-only thing, but the subscription is free.

If it's not already filled up and you're interested you may want to jump fast. They usually do fill up and they're going to be basing the teleconference details off of a real world site where they increased conversions over 100%. Yes I'll be attending even though I have far too much going on right now. Ya never know when you might pick up an interesting tidbit.

Alexi: There's a really really old thread around here somewhere that goes into some detail as to what I look at when I'm evaluating a new market. Not the Gospel of course, but you may be able to gain a bit more insight. I'll have to see if I can find it so that I don't have to type it all again. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)