Is It Normal For An Seo Campaign To Hurt Rankings?, Our site Rankings have gone down HUGE Options

[thegamerscorner]

I recently paid a company to do an SEO campaign for my wholesale video game website, The Gamers Corner, (thegamerscorner.com) . Prior to the company beginning the SEO campaign for us we were receiving #1 - #5 rankings on most of our search terms on Yahoo, Lycos, MSN, and a few others, but were not showing up with Google, DMOZ, and some other search engines. We wanted a company to do an SEO campaign for us to ensure we were listed with Google and DMOZ and received high rankings with these search engines while keeping our rankings with our other search engines such as Yahoo. After the company began ther SEO campaign we became seemingly delisted (not shwoing up at all) from quite a few search engines for some reason, and those that we use to have high rankings with we have dropped severely. Most keywords we no longer will even show up on the first page anymore whereas before we were #1-#5 with the same engines with the same keywords just 3 weeks to a month before. The company has been alledgedly working on this for us for a month, but when I inquired to why we were delisted with some search engines, why we have not been listed with any new engines, and why almost every keyword on those engines we once ranked highly we now are ranking extremely low now after they began the SEO campaign. They responded this is normal and don't worry. I waited another week, and we only seem to have dropped lower, so I emailed them again and recieved the following email which I have included below, there were more emails but it would have taken to much room to add them all. My question is is this really normal to go down and be delisted from search engines during an SEO campaign or is this behaviour abnormal? I appreciate your help with this, thank you.

emails from the company and us via PM

I will enlighten you by removing your confusion before the seo campain the metatags of your site was different and yahoo use to crwal that metatags but after i have placed the new metatags spiders of all the search engine will get confused because earlier it was other metatags screenshot taken by search engines and now other metagas thats why sligly it goes down for some days but again it will be top after the spiders check it throughly. I assure you once again that nothing to worry. Kindly wait for some days your rankings will regain in yahoo.

Best Regards



Posted by -----
Posted: 07:45 am ET 10/Oct/2005
23618621
 
I appologize, but we are just trying to ensure that something is being done to ensure that we do end up on the top of the results with as many search terms or keywords as possible. The thing that concerns us the most though is that on search engines such as Yahoo that have been updated with the new information we are showing lower on identical search terms than before the SEO campaign. Our site has already been spidered with what seems to be the new meta information etc in yahoo and is coming up 4 positions lower on 5 keywords thus far. I understand and can appreciate the amount of time before we are listed with these other search engines, but am confused on why on those search engines that are updated such as Yahoo why we are now in lowering positions or ranks for almost all search terms when compared to how it was prior to the SEO campaign. I hope you understand I am not tyring to be hard to get along with, rather am simply confused why we are showing lower rank on almost every
search term on Yahoo who does appear to have the updated meta information. I thank you for your time and understanding with this matter.

 
Posted by ----
Posted: 11:47 am ET 09/Oct/2005
23611508

If you could please do me a favor and do a search on Yahoo for the following keywords you will get a better understanding of what I am speaking of. Below are just a few keywords off Yahoo to give you an idea how drastically our rankings have suffered form those engines that have already crawled. Please let us know what will be done to get these ratings higher. These won't go from no reference to #1-3 without a change as they have already been spidered and show updated on Yahoo. If I am missing something please let me know, thank you.

Here's just a few keywords that we have gone done or dropped totally from:

wholesale video game, first result is #15 on page 2 and is for our old site not our current site we use to fluctuate between 2 and 4 for this term before the SEO.

video game distributor, first reference again is to our old site and is #7 used to fluctuate between #2-3

video game wholesaler, NO reference at all used to be #9

video game supplier, first reference #5 used to be #1-#3 normally #1

wholesale distributor, NO reference at all used to fluctuate between #9-11


Posted by 
Posted: 11:45 am ET 09/Oct/2005
23611441


Hello I inform you that as the search enngine crwals the site also crawls depending upon the traffic generated. Its not your site there are thousands of sites crawl every day so this fluctation arises. It will almost take 90 to 120 days to get listed in major search engines according to the rules of search engines. I assure you once again that kindly be patience your site will be listed in search engines dont get panic.

Regards

Posted by 
Posted: 11:08 am ET 09/Oct/2005
23611279


I appreciate you doing the SEO campaign for us however, we are getting concerned that not one keyword ranking went up as of yet. Unfortunately we have confirmed all rankings went down for related identical search terms when compared to before the campaign, and we have even been delisted with some search engines like DMOZ and Google totally for some reason. How long do you anticipate before we began appearing on DMOZ and Google as well as at the very minimum get back to the keyword rankings we had before the start of this SEO campaign? I understand it takes time, but we are a business that relies soley on PPC, SEO, newspaper ads, PR releases, and the like to promote our site. We have really pushed newspaper advertising lately and it did get us the results we were hoping it would, but now we are seemingly delisted with some of the search engines that we use to rank #1 or #3 with before the implementation of the campaign. If you look at Alexa ratings of our site you will notice a huge increase in daily views when we began advertising heavily before the SEO campaign, but since the start of the campaign the page views have gone down substantially as we are almost not appearing anywhere at all anymore. I understand it takes time, but right now we are almost not appearing at all on the vast MAJORITY of keywords on the major search engines like Yahoo, Google, DMOZ, etc. I understand rankings go up and down, but they have only gone done thus far and not one search engine have our rankings gone up by even one ranking position. We have even began not appearing at all on seach engines we used to appear under identical search terms. We would like to ensure that someone is actively working to ensure we are listed properly on those selected keywords on all search engines including but not limited too Yahoo. Google, DMOZ, Lycos, MSN, etc, etc, etc. Please understand that we do appreciate your work and understand ratings fluctuate, but we should not have gone done in rankings everywhere like we have done thus far. Please let us know what is being done to ensure higher rankings, and when to expect for us to be relsisted with DMOZ, Google etc. I am not trying to be a pain, but our page views and subsequently sales have suffered tremendously as a result of no longer showing up at all on some engines and much lower on others in the past week. I do appreciate your help and understanding with this matter. Thank you for your time and patience.

[Removed identifying information of the SEO company. - Jill]

This post has been edited by Jill: Oct 11 2005, 01:06 PM

[Jill]

Do you know exactly what the company did for your site?

If they simply changed your meta keyword tag, then your site wouldn't move up or down because of it.

But there are other things they could have done that would affect it's placement. Did they change title tags? Did they change your content?

It doesn't sound like they speak english very well, so I'd be a bit scared if they changed your content.

Did the put up doorway/gateway pages? Did they cloak anything? Did they know that you were already ranking well for certain keyword phrases and didn't want to lose those?

Find out every single detail of what they did as soon as you can. (This should have been something you did to begin with, but many people don't know to do this.)

[thegamerscorner]

Thanks for the quick response. I will try to answer the questions the best I can b copying your question then putting my answer next to each, thanks again.

Do you know exactly what the company did for your site?

Unfortunately not. I know what they were suppose to do per the appraisal, but do not know what they have done as of yet besides what they stated in the messages below which is pretty much meta tags.


Did they change title tags? Did they change your content?

No they did not change the content at all
The title tags were changed yes and look bad IMO not SEO wise but just look bad to the eye if that makes sense).

It doesn't sound like they speak english very well, so I'd be a bit scared if they changed your content.

No they do not speak English well at all, but assured me before the campaign that they were fluent. Should have known. Maybe the meant they had the flu and not fluent (just kidding (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Did the put up doorway/gateway pages? Did they cloak anything?

I am not sure I will email them now and ask

Did they know that you were already ranking well for certain keyword phrases and didn't want to lose those?

Yes, I told them 3 times I wanted to keep these high rankings with these engines

Find out every single detail of what they did as soon as you can. (This should have been something you did to begin with, but many people don't know to do this.)

I did indeed ask before they bagn what they would do and they sent a sheet (included below). But I have seen nothing done thats on the sheet except the meta tags and title info.


The sheet they sent me stating what they would do for me during the SEO campaign. This was sent when I asked what they do and was asked before I accepted them to do the SEO campaign for me.




Our Process of Search Engine Optimization:


1. We analyze the requirements required for Optimizing particular site that is

• No. of key phrases.
• Search Engine Names
• Mile stones
• Control panel details or ftp details
• title, description of the site for reciprocal links (if required)
• two emails ids , and data base details

2. Checking the popularity of site with the related keywords.

• Checking the site URL in search engines with that particular site
• Checking the site PR
• Checking the no. of links reciprocated presently.

3. Analyzing the keywords and see the competitors of the site like PR of the site, no. of backward links, Etc.,

• Analyzing the keywords with tools, like overture, google adwards,..Etc.,
• Analyzing the competitor’s site PR, and no. of backward links, Meta tags, etc.

4. Preparing the document with title, description, keywords tags.

• Preparing the document which contain Tags like – Title, description, keywords, author, content, key phrases, etc.,

5. Preparing the document for reciprocal links, and adding the site into reciprocal application.

• The document which contain Title, description, mail id , local path for reciprocal links
• Adding the site into reciprocal application. Filling the details of URL, requirement, preparing mail format with the code, and empty layout.

6. Creating the site Search Engine Optimized.

• Changing the titles, Meta description, content (if required), etc., for all the pages.
• Checking the link builder application functionality on net.

7. Adding the hit counter to the site.

• Generating the hit counter code
• Placing that code into the site index or default file and final checking.


8. Adding the site in Selfpromotion.com for auto submission to search engines.

• Adding all the site details into the self promotion like titles, description, contact info in selfpromotion.com
• After adding site data in the selfpromotion.com. Auto submits to search engines initially.
• And check the status.

9. Assigning the work to SEO person for manual submission.

• Giving the complete details to Search Engine Optimizer about the site.
• Instructions about how to submit, and about categories

o The duties of SEO person are as follows:
 Submit to Search Engines manually by searching in google
 Collect all the search engines in excel sheet which submitted manually
 Report to the team leader how many have submitted and feedback.

10. Assigning the work to Link exchange person to get reciprocal links.

• Giving the complete details to Link exchange person about the site.
• Instructions about how to request the reciprocal links and about categories.

o The duties of Link Exchange person
 Configuring the mail id in their outlook to check the approved link.
 Search the related and targeted sites in google for reciprocal link requests.
 Submit to related and targeted reciprocal link sites.
 Sending mails to all the sites to request reciprocal link
 Approving the reciprocal links by checking the mails and update in the link application.
 Doing back up frequently for approving links.

11. Checking the status daily regarding manual submission and reciprocal links.

• Checking the status of site no. of search engines submitted.
• Checking the mails from search engines related to that particular site.
• Checking the links submitted for reciprocal links and taking the report for that approved links.

12. Uploading the reciprocal links data to the net daily in to the database.

• The links which are submitted in the night in local data base that to be uploaded to net database. So that can be visible on the site.
• Solving the problems which are facing while submitting to search engines and at the time of requesting the reciprocal links.
• Like configuring outlook to send the mails, increasing the page length, not working links, etc.

13. Checking the rank in the Search Engines with the particular keywords.

• First check in major search engines about listing of the site or increasing the rank.
• Checking the position with a particular keywords given by the client
• Checking the position of the site in major search engines using the search engine ranking tools.



14. Creating the report in the same layout.

• Preparing the report to the check the position of the site.
• Adding the keywords to that report.
• Uploading all the files to our server which shows the report

15. Sending the SEO report to client.




Regards

IBsoftech

[oneofthe3lions]

In reality if you were high on msn and yahoo etc and just wanted google then ot was probably just a link building campaign you needed.. Of course nobody can get you into Dmoz either and shouldnt realy be an issue with you.

Did you keep a copy of the site the way it was before the changes?

[lyn]

We wanted a company to do an SEO campaign for us to ensure we were listed with Google and DMOZ and received high rankings with these search engines

Can't comment on what they have done (see Jill's questions!) but note that DMOZ will not be affected by any SEO work. DMOZ is a directory, not a search engine, and it does not use crawlers to index or rank your site.

If you aren't in DMOZ and want to be, you can simply submit the site and wait for an editor to list in the category you chose. (Could be a l-o-o-o-ng wait!)

(added) heavily cross posted here! Now to review your answers to Jill's questions...

L

[Jill]

Changing titles can definitely effect your rankings. Did they remove keyword phrases you currently had in your titles in order to change them to something else?

If so, that would explain your drop.

You said that you told them you didn't want to lose your rankings in Yahoo, etc., but did they know for which keyword phrases you had those rankings with?

It sounds like they are doing a whole bunch of auto submitting, which possibly could have caused you problems. (Doubtful, but it might.) Tell them to NOT put your site into any program that auto submits anywhere. And tell them there's no need to submit to any search engine whatsoever, at any time, manually or automatically.

I hate to ask this at this point, but of all the SEO companies in the world, what made you choose this particular company?

[thegamerscorner]

Thanks everyone for your responses I really appreciate it. In response to your question:

I hate to ask this at this point, but of all the SEO companies in the world, what made you choose this particular company?

I understand. I chose them after looking at their portfolio which they emailed me, and their feedback on Elance. A mistake looking back.

[Jill]

Having close to 50 words in your Title tag may definitely have set off some sort of red flag at Yahoo...

Plus all the non-standard tags where they've added keywords.

You may wish to place your old pages back temporarily until you have a chance to discuss more with this company to see if they actually know what they're doing. (It doesn't appear that they do, but if you're not paying very much, then you're getting pretty much what you paid for.)

[RyanBlank]

wow.. that's one heck of a title tag they put in there. and all that meta data. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[thegamerscorner]

Not sure what everyone considers a lot, but I paid $550. I am waiting for his response now to my questions which I got from your questions. Hopefully this does not hurt my website in the long run too much. We just started really getting a lot of traffic. This company keeps saying to drop down in ratings is normal for an SEO campaign. Can anyone confirm or deny if it is normal to go down in every search engine and serch keyword in the first month of a SEO campaign? I asusme its not normal but I am not an SEO guru like you guys so I thought I'd ask.

[thegamerscorner]

The latest response to my questions got me another vague response which I included below. Bear in mind I ask specifically what had been done thus far, and what will be done. I further asked why 7 of the 15 items in the proposal for the campaign were not done (such as hit counter, links, etc) which he again did not address as well. Argh. Also if you check our Alexa rankings you will see us moving in leaps and bonds up, up, up... until the beginning of the SEO campaign and then once they started the SEO campaign down to 0 on the Alexa chart. His response is below and is very vague.



Hi i have changed the metatags and title tags according to seo algorithms and assure you that your site will list back in yahoo.


We also inform you that we will be providing you releated links as it will take time to find out the links.


We assure you once again that your site will acheive the rankings

Regards
[name removed]

This post has been edited by Jill: Oct 11 2005, 03:24 PM

[Michael Martinez]

The latest response to my questions got me another vague response which I included below. Bear in mind I ask specifically what had been done thus far, and what will be done. I further asked why 7 of the 15 items in the proposal for the campaign were not done (such as hit counter, links, etc) which he again did not address as well. Argh. His response is below and is very vague.
Hi i have changed the metatags and title tags according to seo algorithms and assure you that your site will list back in yahoo.
We also inform you that we will be providing you releated links as it will take time to find out the links.
We assure you once again that your site will acheive the rankings

Regards
[name removed]

I don't know how long these guys have been in business, but I wouldn't use their services, based strictly on the list you provided. However, based some of the emails you're posting (BTW -- there may be a liability issue in providing those extensive citations), I DEFINITELY would not want to use them.

Hit counters? Sorry. That log won't float.

It sounds like these guys did a link bomb campaign. You may be able to confirm that by searching for references to your URL in the various search engines. A spammy link bomb campaign CAN indeed lower your rankings for established search terms by incurring a spam penalty.

If you find thousands of new references to your URL in the search engines, that will confirm my suspicion.

If they did not engage in a link bomb campaign, they should nonetheless be willing to tell you (under a condition of confidentiality, perhaps) what they HAVE done. If they are unwilling to explain to you, the paying client, what they are doing/have done, then you should cut your losses short and run.

That's my opinion, based solely on what I have read here. I have not attempted to do any research on your URL.

ON EDIT:

Not sure what everyone considers a lot, but I paid $550. I am waiting for his response now to my questions which I got from your questions. Hopefully this does not hurt my website in the long run too much. We just started really getting a lot of traffic. This company keeps saying to drop down in ratings is normal for an SEO campaign. Can anyone confirm or deny if it is normal to go down in every search engine and serch keyword in the first month of a SEO campaign? I asusme its not normal but I am not an SEO guru like you guys so I thought I'd ask.

Changing your title tags CAN knock you down for existing rankings. But it depends on the extent of the changes.

I suppose you should be looking at your traffic. Has it been affected much? You said you just started getting a lot of traffic, but what kind? Some companies (and I don't mean to imply that this particular firm does it) will spoof traffic from their own servers. Have you checked the traffic to determine that it's real people who want to be on your site? Some increases in traffic can be due solely to spiders from second-tier (and lower) search engines crawling your site.

You need to analyze your conversions and raw server logs to understand what this surge in traffic is doing for you.

This post has been edited by Randy: Oct 12 2005, 04:58 AM

[Jill]

This company keeps saying to drop down in ratings is normal for an SEO campaign. Can anyone confirm or deny if it is normal to go down in every search engine and serch keyword in the first month of a SEO campaign?

It's absolutely not. BUT...and this is a big BUT...

It's possible that your rankings would have changed regardless of whether they did something or not. Rankings can change even when you do nothing.

In this case though, it is not looking too good for your SEO company. They wrote spammy title tags, and added all kinds of spammy meta tags that don't belong there. I'm just afraid of what else they may have done that we don't know about.

None of this should have long term consequences however, if you fix it fairly quickly.

[thegamerscorner]

I guess that leads me to my next question which is how do you recommend I find a good SEO company or even just a person that can fix this for me as to get the desired results for a fair price? I appreciate all your help.

[RyanBlank]

even just a person that can fix this for me

hopefully you have a backup of your site, pre this company. i would throw those files up asap to start getting things back to normal. as for hiring an seo company, you said you had decent rankings on Yahoo and MSN already, so quite possibly you were already on the right track. hanging around here and reading for a while will place you leaps and bounds ahead of this company you hired and you may find that you can do exactly what you need to on your own.

Reading the Tips for Newbies thread should get you on the right track. also, while you are at it, i'd send Tips for Newbies to your seo company and have them start reading as well. The work they are doing is just plain wrong.