Changing The Focus From Rankings, Measuring Traffic and Conversions Options

[Jill]

I had a call with a potential client this morning, and I found myself practically yelling at him to not hire me.

He said that he was already top 10 in Google, but wanted to move up from say #9 to somewhere in the top 3 for a few specific phrases. He went on to say how he completely understood that there were no guarantees, and all that stuff, but that he would certainly assume that as an SEO company, something like that should be doable.

So I told him I wouldn't take his money because the best I can tell any clients is that we could get them into the top 10 or 20, and that besides that, who cares where you rank anyway?

I asked if he was measuring his conversions. He said was a bit with his paid stuff, but probably not as well as they should overall. I explained that he needed to look at increasing conversions and not rankings, and that if he was willing to look at those numbers, and forget about rankings, then maybe we could do business.

He was pretty confused, and kept coming back to the fact that "aren't you an SEO company?" and "you should be able to rank higher than I can do myself not being an SEO company" to which I once again explained that there's no way to place any site into any particular position in the search engines. At any given time they could go up or down, and unless he was willing to forget about rankings altogether, he shouldn't work with me.

By the end of this very long and heated discussion (to which I thought my partner was going to (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/Whip.gif) me!) he seemed to be starting to get it. But I have to say the whole thing left me wiped out.

Are the rest of you dealing with this sort of thing? It IS definitely difficult to wrap your head around the concept of not worrying about rankings, when you first hear it.

[qwerty]

All the time. And I usually give them about a quarter of what they want to hear -- something like, "we can probably increase your rankings, but there's absolutely no guarantee of that, and it's not really the metric we should be using to measure successs anyway."

[Matt B]

Yup - all the time. It is a real balancing act to meet their percived need of rankings and at the same time convince them of what consititutes actual success.

One great example I found today is a client that sells a mechanical device, and he HAD to have a top ranking for the name for the device, both singular and plural. That was his main goal. After three months of monitoring his conversions, only 5% of his sales came from search referals for that term, everything else came from related keyword phrases.

Long live the long tail!

[Jill]

Well, he does know that when he's in the top 3 for a specific phrase, he gets tons more visitors, and of course tons more conversions.

Which makes it even more difficult to try to explain what exactly it is we could do for him. I find the biggest thing to convince some people of, is the benefit of looking at all the other phrases he hasn't thought about yet. Yes, they won't bring the same kind of traffic (on their own) as the big money one he wants top 3 for, but put them all together and it makes a difference. And of course they're more targeted, yada yada.

But there's absolutely no way I would take a client's money who is already top 10 for some specific phrase, who thinks I can somehow magically make then top 3. I probably can, but I sure can't have that be their expectation, because it could be there one day and not the next.

[Alan Perkins]

Are the rest of you dealing with this sort of thing?

Always have been. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It IS definitely difficult to wrap your head around the concept of not worrying about rankings, when you first hear it.

I remember trying to persuade you that HighRankings wasn't a good long term name. I failed. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[qwerty]

And then there's my domain name (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) For what it's worth, it was my second choice. The first was available as a domain name (and it had nothing to do with rankings) but someone owned it as a trademark.

But it is sort of fun sharing the SERP for your company name with an alternate translation of an Islamic prayer (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jill]

I remember trying to persuade you that HighRankings wasn't a good long term name. I failed.

No, you didn't actually! Why do you think my new company name is Search Creative?

But that's a good point because as long as I use High Rankings, that's what people will be looking for me to provide. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[incrediblehelp]

You think that is bad, nothing is more frustrating than trying to explain to a prospect that I can not control the Google toolbar and even if your website movied up 2-3 nothces would that equate to better rankings or sales!!!

[projectphp]

...and at the same time convince them of what consititutes actual success.

That is sadly so true.

Why is the web the only place in the world in which the bottom line isn't vital? Why are rankings a goal? I think the SEO marketing train spent so much time saying "if people are finding you when looking for you.." but forgot to mention "... but that isn't all that is required".

Oh well, what can you do??

[reddevil]

I see somebody has already beaten us to register the name highconversions.com
(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[kickass]

I see somebody has already beaten us to register the name highconversions.com
(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Probably just as well, only SEO peeps understand the term, clients don't, at least not until it's explained to them- repeatedly.

[goodman]

Always have been. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I remember trying to persuade you that HighRankings wasn't a good long term name.  I failed. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

I just tell them I can get them right off Page 1, and onto Page 0. This usually scares 'em off...

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/pr.gif)

Unless of course... Page 0 is some magic, better, excellent place.... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/flower.gif)

[ablereach]

I explained that he needed to look at increasing conversions and not rankings, and that if he was willing to look at those numbers, and forget about rankings, then maybe we could do business.

Outside goals like SERPS can seem easier and more important than self assessment. SEO without development geared towards quality user experience is a crock, IMHO. I don't understand arguing against digging deeper for broader benefits - perhaps it's a form of technophobia?

Anyone who can count can get that #1 is (or may be) a winner in Google, and #5 is (or may be (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) ) greener than #2 in PR. Not everyone can look at a site and see useability shortcomings. Not everyone bothers to analyze conversions or server stats. Not knowing would drive me nuts. On the other hand, heck, I rarely balance my checkbook. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/angel_not.gif)


Elizabeth

[robbinsr]

It's funny that in life we still value places other than first, for example a silver medal in the Olympics is still a pretty big deal, but when it comes to web sites and the SERP's, we all have to be number one, and not only number one, but number one in Google! How many times have we all heard, "I am number one in Yahoo and MSN but [insert not number one here] in Google, what can I do?"

When was the last time anyone clicked on Google's, "I'm Feeling Lucky" button when doing a search? Everyone takes the time just about every time to look at at least two or three sites from the SERP's, and they may not necessarily be the first two or three results either, but no one seems to remember that when they are hiring SEOs.

The single most important thing for your web site is conversion, not higher rankings! Not that high rankings aren't important, because if you aren't on the first page, in the top ten returned results, you probably won't get looked at, but wherever you might be, if people don't do what you want them to do once they find you, then what is the point?

If you are going to spend your time doing only one more thing to fix up your site, then do whatever it takes to improve your conversion rate, whether that be hiring a great copyrighter, useability expert, tweaking your content to drive your traffic where you want it to go once it is there, or whatever. Once you've done this you will find the ROI way higher than any algo tricks to move up a couple more places in the SERP, or to improve your PR on the Google toolbar, which isn't even accurate nor a good measurement of your site's true status anyways.

Do this and you can't go wrong. And while you are at it, write for your "Loyal Readers", not the Search Engines, do what your "Loyal Readers" would want you to do, link where they would want you to link, and you will never go wrong. Build it for them and the results will follow!

[Mel]

Its all very well to talk about creating conversions, but you simply are not going to even get a sniff of those conversions (from search engine traffic) if your site is ranking on page ten, and thus one of the basic considerations IMO is a decent ranking on relevant terms.

If you increase your traffic by 50% by getting better rankings it is also very likely that your sales with go up by the same amount. After all someone has to rank well for those hard to get terms, and good rankings combined with the same focus on coversions IMO is a more fruitful approach.

Secondly there are some improvements that an SEO can make for better conversions, but there are far more conversion factors that are totally outside the control of anyone but the website owner. Things like the unique selling proposition, the marketability and design of the product, the strength of the competition and last but not least, the perceived value of the product or service.

Its not just one thing or the other its about combining them into a cohesive whole IMO.