White Hat Spamming Tool?, Copy SERPS and create junk pages Options

[Scottie]

I was surprised to see this in my PRWeb targeted releases today...

Search Engine Optimization Expert Offers First “White Hat” Software Tool


If you read about the tool, it's yet another crappy content generator tool. Where do people get the idea that by calling it "white hat" it makes it OK?

MetaWebs are likely to be bookmarked and revisited because of their valuable content.

Riiiiight.... I often bookmark pages that were copied from SERP's because they are so valuable!

Anderson is aware that any tool, regardless of its intended purpose, can be misused.

No.. really???

[SearchRank]

It is the old "wolf in sheep's clothing"! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[OldWelshGuy]

Why Mister Anderson, we have been waiting for you!!!!!!!!

What IS the Matrix?

[Nick W]

More info on the charming mr anderscam towards the end of this thread

We have a word for people like this in england, it begins with W and ends in R (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jill]

You know, I don't normally like dissing stuff here, but I have to say that this is the craziest thing I've ever read, so I'll make an exception.

I did read this press release last night, and even said to my husband, "Gee, you can make a press release about anything these days." I didn't read the thing very closely, but I figured it had to be a joke as it was talking about automated software that was allegedly "white hat." (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

That's just too funny, and I really do think that someone is pulling the wool over our eyes.

Do you guys think this is actually for real? It can't be, can it? (Is it April Fool's Day yet?)

We've sold out of the first 100 membership within 24 hours
of opening our doors.

Yeah right. I really believe that...

[Nick W]

He's a member (well, that's clear..) at ihelpyou with about 240+ posts by the name of rockynate

I'd say he's for real, I'd also say that once doug gets a whiff of this he'll be in for a rough ride over there - me and doug dont agree on much but we sure do agree on selling this kind of stuff to small biz owners....

If he'd labelled it as a auto-gen tool and given up the horrible sales page in favour of somthing a little less.. snake oil seller like, it might have been fun to look at / play around with. But this is beyond a joke, it's just ludicrous...

[Jill]

Rockynate? Sheesh...I remember him. He was just learning SEO like a year and a half ago or so. Two at most.

Now he's touting himself as an SEO expert. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Fine if he wants to peddle his spam software, but to out and out lie in a press release that it's some sort of help for "white hats" is pathetic. It's false advertising at best, and I have half a mind to sic the FTC on him.

It's really akin to Traffic Power saying that they practice white hat techniques. Simply an out and out lie.

Rockynate, you should be ashamed of yourself! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mf_tongue.gif)

[Scottie]

Interesting is that he is claiming that he didn't know about the press release, but he doesn't seem to be too worried about the claims made in it or getting it taken down or corrected.

If someone sent out a press release promoting MY COMPANY and I didn't authorize it, I'd be pretty darn ticked about it. Especially if I didn't think it represented my company in a positive light.

From the tone of his site, it appears to be written by the same person.

[Jill]

It makes no sense that he didn't know about the press release. Who just goes around making press releases for others without their knowledge.

Quite frankly, from everything I've read (and I certainly may be mistaken) but I find it very, very hard to actually believe one word he says.

Which saddens me, because I remember when Rockynate was a newbie at IHY (not all that long ago) and he seemed like a nice guy. Guess I was fooled.

[Connie]

He is getting a rough ride at IHY.

[rockynate]

Not too rough... I certainly deserve some heat from that community; they're purists.

I've never posted over here... in fact, the only time I've perused was right after you opened these forums, Jill. Seemed like a "she-woman man-haters" club at the time, so I didn't bother jumping in. That has obviously not been the case, and it looks to be a pretty diverse and useful place.

Think what y'all like, I'm not a liar, nor a cheat. I've created something that I'm really proud of. And yes, we sold out of the first 100 memberships in 18 hours. There were so many people hitting the site and watching the demo that our dual 2.8GHz Xeon, 2GB RAM server was brought to a crawl. We actually lost several dozen orders mid-process. It's been quite a mess to clean up... Needless to say, I immediately moved the demo video to it's own server...

Yes Jill... I think it's been about 2 years since I started posting at IHY. I read the forums for probably 6 months to a year before that. SEO was fascinating to me back then. To tell you the truth, it's much less fascinating now... now that I have statistical fact to draw from rather than conjecture and hearsay.

My good friend Kirt Christensen wrote an article a while back that really made a lot of people mad... "Why Free Forums Suck". It was a very eye-opening look at why these places are a complete waste of time for anyone... save perhaps the psychologists. Yes, at the basic level, these places will spark ideas and perhaps inspire readers to do some proper research.

But most often, readers are sent down statistically invalid paths... sent by people that don't know any better. They're just repeating what they heard someone else say... and what is factual only by "social proof", or the fact that it's "common knowledge". In my opinion, that's far worse than creating a tool that can be used ethically or unethically.

In that light, I've been making efforts to sell my software to those that can best benefit by it. It was released on October 28. Why has it gone unnoticed in every SEO forum all these days? Because SEO folks are not the intended audience. That's why the sales page is written the way it is. It was written by a top copywriting name. It converts quite well, by the way.

It's meant for the small businessperson. I've watched as so many of these people are bilked by the likes of the "social proof" SEO.

One friend of mine has a very popular site, an excellent resource, and one of the first of its kind on the web. Being that we try not to mix our business, and that I really don't have the time for his needs, he's hired a series of SEO firms over the last couple of years. Each time, he asks for my opinion of what the company is doing. I always respond with my opinion, but try not to get in the way of the other firm. "Why not let them do the job their way and see if it works".

Not one company has been worth what they charge. He's always done better with PPC. Many of the techniques they employed were straight from the pages of the free SEO forums.

I've found myself spending an inordinate amount of time consulting all kinds of web businesses that have been taken by professional SEOs. Really, it's been a horrendous waste of my time.

I also saw a large number of folks in the Internet Marketing community (of which I am more involved) stumbling down the path of Ranking Power and Traffic Equalizer, or even cloaking. The garbage pages those softwares spit out were equally horrendous, and have resulted in some serious problems for many people involved.

This software was the solution, in my mind. Creating attractive and useful pages that surfers won't immediately back out of, but also highly optimized and easy to get ranked for lower-demand search terms. The only problem is that they are pretty spammy, especially if used in their basic state. I repeat in the training; over and over; that the most important part of the use of this software is customizing the look and substance of these pages. But I was worried about the heat I'd take...

I came to my senses a while back. Decisions based in fear have no place in my life.

So I decided to stop worrying about what people think, stop defending the so-called "white hat" SEO, and give the people that come to me something that I KNOW will work. I'm really pretty proud of this software!

I AM a nice guy. And I am an honest guy. My "hat" may be tainted in your eyes, but you're not paying for my help. These other folks are... and they're pretty darn happy.

I'd be happy to take the heat, and hear opinions. Doug and the gang back at IHY have, and I respect them.

This post has been edited by rockynate: Nov 12 2004, 12:38 AM

[Jill]

Welcome Nathan! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

I personally have no problem with your software. Just don't publicize it as some kind of "white hat" automated solution, as obviously it's not.

a "she-woman man-haters" club at the time

ROFL! (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif)

Yep, that'd be us...

[projectphp]

Seemed like a "she-woman man-haters" club at the time, so I didn't bother jumping in

I think she is talking about me / us.

Can I add for the record that I am a he-man woman-lover? Not THE Heman, I don't like fight Skeletor or nothing, but I certainly like women.

OK, that cleared up, lets get specific:

But most often, readers are sent down statistically invalid paths

Which is supported by no statistics (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've watched as so many of these people are bilked by the likes of the "social proof" SEO.

Which is what your post was (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I find it funny when people use one form of evidence they discredit to make their own argument, in this case your "social proof".

So I decided to stop worrying about what people think, stop defending the so-called "white hat" SEO, and give the people that come to me something that I KNOW will work

So why use that phrase to promote your product? Why call genetically modified, artifically feed pork "100% organic"? You are welcome to do and create whatever you like, but you chose this as the title of your press release:

Search Engine Optimization Expert Offers First “White Hat” Software Tool.

You chose to market a product using a very specific phrase. You now need to defend how that phrase applies to the product, which IMHO you didn't do in your post.

I AM a nice guy. And I am an honest guy

I have no doubt (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But Winston Churchill was a drinking, smoking, gambling womaniser and Hitler a one woman tee-totaller.

This forum tries to keep away from the personal, and defending yourself in this way just makes us either have to attack you personally, which I don't want to do, or let you appeal to sympathy when it isn't the issue. Please don't make these debates personal, not even when the "personal" is yourself.

My (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/penny.gif)

I don't believe that one can sell a software package that can do SEO well in the same way there is no Tax return software that you push a button and BOOM, great return. I am also iffy about a product that sells technology above knowledge. A little bit of later is always dangerous.

I am sure this software can work, and I am sure there is a market for it, but just as the"Social SEOs" have their flaws, so to does justifying a product based upon sales.

By all means, sell your product, market it however you like, just don't use an emotive term like "White-Hat" and expect no flak.

[Jill]

Can I add for the record that I am a he-man woman-lover? Not THE Heman, I don't like fight Skeletor or nothing, but I certainly like women.

ROFL (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif) You've shattered my illusions of you now, Michael!

For the record, Rockynate was defending himself because I said in my post that I wouldn't believe a word he said, so I can't blame him for the "honest guy" comment.

[mcanerin]

Spam, Spam, Spam.

More importantly, IMO, potentially fraud and/or false advertising: http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

It's one thing to tell people that you have a technique that is risky but can work well, but this is something totally different.

The website leaves the visitor with the clear understanding that this is a risk free technique and completely acceptable to search engines. Terms like "white hat" and "guarantee" and comparisions to "risky" tactics all create this image in a blatently commercial context.

Only the FTC can enforce the FTC regulations (not the public) but here is a link to an FTC Internet Paper:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspub...tcom/index.html

Consumers burned by this or other things like this would need to use the Lanham Act, in the US.

To establish a violation under the Lanham Act, consumers and competitors must prove the following: (1) the advertiser made false statements of fact about its product; (2) the false advertisements actually deceived or had the capacity to deceive a substantial segment of the target population; (3) the deception was material; (4) the falsely advertised product was sold in interstate commerce; and (5) the party bringing the lawsuit (known as the "plaintiff") was injured as a result of the deception.

The thing is, if he hadn't been telling people this was essentially risk-free and "white hat" I would not be making this post. It's one thing to create a system that allows spammers to spam, it's quite another to dupe the uninformed into thinking they are NOT spamming when using this.

You want my take on the whole ethical issue? This is a clearly unethical marketing attempt, and likely illegal.

Anderson is aware that any tool, regardless of its intended purpose, can be misused

The funny thing is, it's not the tool, it's the marketing. One person gets banned or penalized and he could be going to jail. Yet if he had not used the hard sell and false promises, that would not be the case.

And justifying the worth of the product by the number of people you've managed to rip off is laughable. I suppose that means the DR. ALBEHS EKABOZA OF NIGERIA is honest, successful and trustworthy because a lot of people have fallen for his "help me get my ill-gotten gains out of my country for a huge percentage" scheme. Great! Maybe I should return his email and make a few million easy... (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/puke.gif)

Caveat Emptor.

Ian

This post has been edited by mcanerin: Nov 12 2004, 01:09 PM