What Is Relevance?, What do people think relevance is?? Options

[projectphp]

Post Florida, people are in a real tissy about how "unrelevant" all the SERPs are. But what is relevance? We all talk about it like it is a tangible, measurable thing, but we all seem to think it is different things. I have seen quotes like

Businesses have fallen off the radar having been the most 'relevant' for years

Without understanding the definition of a word, using it is pretty pointless, and admit I am perplexed as to what people think relevance is. A business may have been algorithmically considered relevant to a search term, but does that really mean it was or is?

FWIW, I want to give my definition of relevance.

Relevance is variety. It is serving as many possible variations on a theme as possible. The real estate of a SERP needs to, very clearly simply and efficiently provide as much variety and choice as possible. And by choice, I don't mean choice of merchants, I mean fundamental differences in outlook, perspective and context.

Google does this, and has always done this, better than anyone else. A search for George Gregan (Captain of Australia's Brilliant Wallabies {I'm still proud}), gives the following information:
1) A link to search for George gregan Images, Groups, Directory and News (the tabs)
2) A link to dictionary.com's definition of "George" (apparently gregan has no definition)
3) Links to news articles about George Gregan
4) SERP with Look-a-likes, Rugby news, George's own site and an article entitled "George Gregan: You Are So Sexy!" in xtramsn in New Zealand.
5) An eBay ad to buy George Gregan stuff (like memorabilia etc)

Too me, that pretty much covers every conceivable thing a person could be looking for, and that is what relevance is, keeping as many people happy as possible.

What relevance is not, IMHO, is a list of all possible merchants for a thing. Even if it was, there are already heaps of ads to choose from. If a user wants information, reviews or definitions, teh free SERPs are where you look.

Anyone else have a definition of relevance??

[Haystack]

projectphp, there are more things that could be included such as references to recent blog postings on the subject, or excerpts from books who've mentioned the subject. However, I think the results will eventually vary based on the algorithmically determined intention of the surfer. For example, if someone searches for a search likely to be informational, they'll probably see Web, Directory, and News results. If it's a current event, Web, News, and Blog results. If it's a likely product search, Web, Ecommerce, and possibly news results. So the SERP will likely change based on the search to provide the most relevant content to the user.

[OldWelshGuy]

Before i start i will say this
< GOOGLE FIGHT> George Gregan 19,300 v Gareth Edwards 64,000 (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/mf_tongue.gif)

Just Kidding AA.

It don't get much better than this, my 2 favourite things, the web & rugby (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

when i post about relevance i mean just that in its true form (I am a web purist sorry) If i type in a search for Welsh Rugby, then i have no problem with results such as the WRU (top) gwladrugby (a great forum) London Welsh rfc etc. this is a highly relevant SERP.

(IMO) unless i specifically ask for merchandise or gifts etc then i do not expect to see store results or results such as " find wru merchandise at kelkoblah blah" in the serps, as I have not asked for it.

IMO all shopping cart websites should be PFI (with exceptions for charities), if the spider comes across shopping cart software it should back out unless PFI is in place. <puts on asbestos suit to protect from flames> (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) .

Sorry and all that, but the web is an information resource first, and a commerce stream second, MORESO on google as this is their whole ethos, so IMO unless asked for in the search syntax (shop store purchase gifts merchandise or other 'flag' words) then shopping carts should not appear.


PS AWM, are you in OZ or the UK?

[daniel]

Search for rugby world cup champions.

Such a beautiful page with lots of relevant results. (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbup1.gif)

(Sorry, but we don't win often so let us enjoy it while we can!!)

(IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Alan Perkins]

In search engine terms, relevance can mean several things. Rather than write some long diatribe on it, I'll sum it up by saying we are talking about the measure of the perceived relevance of a (resource OR set of resources) to a (searcher OR defined set of searchers) performing a[n augmented] (query OR set of queries) in zero or more contexts.

SERPs are ordered by relevance, most relevant resource first.

Too me, that pretty much covers every conceivable thing a person could be looking for, and that is what relevance is, keeping as many people happy as possible.

That's called disambiguation of the search query. It's an indication that the query was ambiguous, i.e. not refined enough. It's connected to delivering relevant results, but it's not relevance per se.

[SEO-Richard]

Relevance is variety. It is serving as many possible variations on a theme as possible. The real estate of a SERP needs to, very clearly simply and efficiently provide as much variety and choice as possible. And by choice, I don't mean choice of merchants, I mean fundamental differences in outlook, perspective and context.

With you all the way.

Alan, that was a VERY precise definition but with the (artistic, not scientific) term 'perceived relevance.' And I agree with that percieved relevance.

For me personally relevance depends on the query and my mood. Some queries I just want a selection of results within a very narrow definition, some queries I want a whole wide range because I myself don't know what I'm looking for.

It's going to be interesting to see what ideas they serve us up with next. Choices of precise search? Creative search? Mood search? (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Only half-joking.

[mcanerin]

What I'd like to see is a "Search Wizard" that, after you typed in a query, asked you questions like "are you looking for academic or commercial info?" and used a thesaurus to narrow the field down, etc.

The natural language query is the right direction, but if you've ever given tech support over a phone you'll know that some people could describe what they want for an hour and you would still have no idea what they wanted. But you ask one or two pointed questions and bang! you got it.

And the "results like this one" isn't good enough. It doesn't work that well and hardly anyone uses it, IMO.

Ian

[Scottie]

I actually like Alta Vista's "Prisma" technology where they go ahead and deliver results on what they think you wanted... then give you a bunch of related terms to help you refine your search further if needed.

I don't like it enough to actually use Alta Vista, but it is a good concept.

[qwerty]

I rather like Teoma's take on it, with the three R's:
Results (Relevant web pages)
Refine (suggestions to narrow your search)
Resources (Link collections from experts and enthusiasts)

Now if they only had a decent-sized index...

[Randy]

I like Teoma's approach too. Nice, clean interface to boot. Hopefully they'll increase their index size, because that's about all they're lacking IMHO.

Someone mentioned in another thread (Jill? I can't remember who it was, but I think it may have been Jill) that it would behoove one of the major or mid-major SE's to improve their product and take maximum advantage of the recent Google irrelevancy. Now would be a perfect time for Teoma to make a big push to do exactly that.

Goodness knows how much market share they could capture if they followed that simple advice.

A funny/strange occurance... When I got back from Chicago it look me the better part of two days to wade through all of my various email accounts and get them caught up. On my personal account I had email from three relatives asking why they couldn't find anything at Google anymore. They rely on me to fix their computers and tell them how to do stuff online. They're not exactly computer illiterate, but are pretty average Internet users in my estimation.

Rather than explain it all, I simply told them that they might want to try out a different search engine for the time being because things at Google were in flux and nobody knew if or when they'd return to relevancy. Then I suggested they start using Teoma first, because it gives such easy to understand options and MSN second.

These folks all like simplistic and clean interfaces, and frankly I think Teoma offers the best of both worlds for them. Clean interface, relevant results for the generic searches they perform, and an easy, intuitive way to find more specific results.

I've made a mental note to email each of the three back next week to see if they're finding what they're looking for by using another engine. And find out which they've decided to use. Oughta be interesting to get those answers me thinks.

I wonder how many times this same type of discussion is being repeated worldwide?

[qwerty]

Clean interface, relevant results for the generic searches they perform, and an easy, intuitive way to find more specific results.

Not only that, but paid listings are clearly labelled, and while they're the first thing the user sees on the SERP, I think the users eye is drawn immediately to the organic results because of the big "swish" images next to them.

I read somewhere that if Teoma were to significantly increase the size of their index, it would slow down their processing enough to irritate users. That could be enough to keep them from competing with Google and the others.

[BrianR]

Sorry and all that, but the web is an information resource first, and a commerce stream second, MORESO on google as this is their whole ethos, so IMO unless asked for in the search syntax (shop store purchase gifts merchandise or other 'flag' words) then shopping carts should not appear.

Maybe.

The problem is that some commercial sites (though not hard-core ecommerce sites) are very informative indeed. So, just because they add a shopping cart, they should be penalised?? I don't think so.

BrianR

[OldWelshGuy]

I hear what you say Brian, but a line has to be drawn somewhere, and this situation is easily overcome by having the actual shopping cart housed on a sub domain, with the information pages being on the main maybe. Information pages would show up, but the actual products could be off somewhere else.

I understand it would be a lot of work, but if they give enough information then they will get placings in the SERps and also business from the on page links.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one who thinks like this (IMG:http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
spot the plagiarism

[qwerty]

Yup, I say you're a dreamer. And I don't think it's a very nice dream.

The way I see it, if a site has information, then that information should be considered when people are looking for information. It shouldn't matter what else is on the domain, whether it's product images, a shopping cart, or cartoons. I know it's not my decision, but if it was, a search engine would not be able (nor would it have any reason) to decide that a site with the best biographical information on Joyce shouldn't come up on a search for "james joyce" just because it offers users a way to buy a copy of "Dubliners".

[Scottie]

I think some of these conclusions are a little off- from a practical point of view, how would they go about eliminating sites with a shopping cart? And why?

It doesn't appear the new algo is attacking sites that sell- just applying different criteria to sites that are clearly optimized for "high-competition" keyword phrases. Those happen to typically be e-commerce sites.

I have sites that are both commercial and resource sites- they haven't been affected or hurt because of the presence of a shopping cart on the site.