40 replies to this topic

[qwerty]

If you mouseover an image that is a link it will display the alt text.

If you mouseover text that is a link it will display the title text.

I fail to see the fundamental difference that would make one a valuable inclusion for search engines and the other not.

I agree. If one matters to the SE, the other should as well. However, I've tested and tested, and none of my title attributes have ever been indexed. Alt text for a linked image does get indexed. Hopefully, Google will change this at some point, because I really believe that one is as useful as the other, and neither is more prone to abuse than the other.

In fact, IE seems to treat the title attribute as more important than the alt: if you mouse over an image with both alt and title, I believe it's the title that will display in the popup. You could say that it's only under those circumstances that IE becomes compliant in that sense, allowing the alt attribute to only display when the image does not.

[compar]

Only in IE, AFAIK. Mozilla and Netscape don't display the ALT text (dunno about Opera, but I would assume it doesn't either). Its purpose is actually supposed to be for describing the image for those with non graphical browsers or those who have their graphics turned off, not for displaying a "tooltip". Granted, most people do use IE...

However, all the browsers that I know of will display the TITLE text of a graphic when you mouse over it.

Ya! Ya ! I know all that. But IE is 85% of the browser population. So while I didn't mention that specifically It is still true that the majority of viewers will see the alt atg when they mouseover the link.

But as I said before the conventional wisdom is that Google doesn't pay any attention to title attributes -- why I don't know -- so I still contend that the alt tag should be evaluated similarily to the anchor text of a text link.

[torka]

In fact, IE seems to treat the title attribute as more important than the alt: if you mouse over an image with both alt and title, I believe it's the title that will display in the popup.

That is true. Dunno if it means IE thinks the TITLE is more important than the ALT, or if they've just decided to be "helpful" and display the ALT in the absence of the TITLE because so many people were using ALT and not using TITLE (perhaps because Google indexes ALT and not TITLE... how's that for a chicken-and-the-egg scenario ).

Other browsers will display the TITLE attribute text but not the ALT text. AFAIK, only IE displays the ALT text when no TITLE has been specified.

Which does indeed make Google's apparent indexing of ALT text but not TITLE text very puzzling. But who are we mere mortals to question the wisdom of the Great and Powerful Googlebot Behind the Curtain...

--Torka

[glengara]

*I've set up a quickie test for this which is simple enough.*

I presume that to prove the link "reputation" case, where terms only appear in the Alt, the cache of the page should show the "these terms only appear in links to the page" message.
It would also assume that "Googlebombing" could be done simply with Alt text.

Edited by glengara, 25 September 2003 - 12:04 PM.

[Jill]

Exactly. First, if the page even shows up for the phrase that's in the Alt, and then of course the cache page would say that.

Just need to wait for indexing....

[Tamrajh]

Scottie,

I followed that link you suggested and then looked at the results on the site. Those are some of the same things we're questioning here, that was great! I know to take the results with a grain of salt, but it's more concrete evidence than someone (who is not a professional SEM) giving their opinion.

Thanks for the link!

Tamra

[Scottie]

ILJD is doing some interesting tests- but be aware that there is some question that his methods don't measure accurately. I found them interesting, in any case!

More testing! Everyone set up a test.

[Jill]

Well, I already have some results!

In my test so far, Google did read the info in the alt attribute (of a clickable image), and the page that the alt is on, shows up in Google for a query on the keyword.

My test consisted of putting a nonsense keyword in an alt in a clickable image. I'm waiting for the landing page to be indexed also, to see if that page will show up in the SERP for the word also.

I probably should also test an alt that is not in a clickable link.

Now, if there were hundreds or thousands of other pages that used my keyword phrase, the results might possibly be different.

Jill

<Added> BTW, the cache of my page says "these terms only appear in links pointing to this page" when in fact, the term only appears in the alt attribute tag on the page.

So when you see that in Google's cache for a page, and can't find the keywords in links pointing to the page, check the alt attributes...

[bwelford]

these terms only appear in links pointing to this page

I assumed that meant the terms appeared in the "link text". So it could be in the ALT for a clickable image, or perhaps even better in the TITLE of a link pointing to the web page.

Does anyone have a view whether the TITLE for a clickable image is stronger in PageRank terms than an ALT for the same image?

Barry Welford

[Jill]

Barry, in this case, the words don't appear in anything pointing to the page. The words are only on the page itself, in the alt tag. That's it.

My clicked-to page hasn't been indexed yet, so it's yet to be seen what will happen with that one.

Jill

[Jill]

From what I've heard, the link title doesn't get spidered at all. But I should probably check that one for myself too.

Jill

[glengara]

*My clicked-to page hasn't been indexed yet*

That'd be the crucial test, if we get the message "these terms were only found..... etc" link reputation is go.

[Jill]

*My clicked-to page hasn't been indexed yet*

That'd be the crucial test, if we get the message "these terms were only found..... etc" link reputation is go.

Yes, that's the one I'm most curious about.

I wasn't even thinking about the first test. Just happened to notice the page was indexed and checked google for the word and up it came!

I've set up another page a little bit ago to test the "link title attribute" thingee...

[Drew-z]

"Link Reputation" has to do with what is written "In The Link" that points to your page. This is either the text in the link or the text in the ALT Tag of an image link."

That is the link aspect, but nothing in regards to the reputation.

The reputation part of the link is what is really the powerful factor for link reputation. All links are far from equal as we all know well, and this is what link reputation is quantifying.

I am confident the reputation of a link is based on numerous factors such as page rank, # of links on the referring page, resemblence of the linking page to the linked page, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree with Jill in regards to image alt being as legitamite as link text and have seen evidence to support this.

[glengara]

*....and have seen evidence to support this.*

Any examples you can show us?

Drew-z, at this stage the concept is both interesting and plausible, however, quantifying it may be another matter.
You may have to consider the up to a hundred ranking factors that G is supposed to use ;-)