Hi everyone
Fireworks has a drop down menu creator which is really easy to set up. How does it compare to say text links down the side of the page as far as the search engines are concerned and the spiders? Will it inhibit the spider's finding your pages? Can it cause a drop in your rankings?
If you have the links at the bottom of the page I suppose this wont be a problem anyway. Ditto for a sitemap.
Jonathan
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Drop Down Menus
Started by
turbocashuk
, Sep 21 2003 09:35 AM
15 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_CurlyKarl_*
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 09:56 AM
Jonathan
Search Engines do have trouble following the links from the drop down menus created in Fireworks.
The best way round it is to have a sitemap or similar linked from the bottom of the page, this will ensure the other pages are spidered properly.
One of the sites I look after had problems getting all the pages indexed due to the Fireworks drop down menu, as soon as I added the site map everything was fine.
The only thing worth considering is the loss of page rank from page to page.
instead of Index > Page you end up with
Index > Sitemap > Page
If you look at it from that angle, text links from the homepage are better, thats now my preference.
Regards
Karl
Search Engines do have trouble following the links from the drop down menus created in Fireworks.
The best way round it is to have a sitemap or similar linked from the bottom of the page, this will ensure the other pages are spidered properly.
One of the sites I look after had problems getting all the pages indexed due to the Fireworks drop down menu, as soon as I added the site map everything was fine.
The only thing worth considering is the loss of page rank from page to page.
instead of Index > Page you end up with
Index > Sitemap > Page
If you look at it from that angle, text links from the homepage are better, thats now my preference.
Regards
Karl
#3
turbocashuk
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 09:59 AM
Hi Karl
Thanks for the info.
But surely if you have all the links at the bottom of the page as well, then you wont have the problem of dropping your page rank. Ie you wont need to go index ->sitemap ->page. You can still go from index->page.
It's just that drop-down menus look so much more professional and make navigation much easier for the user. You can have far more links but they are easier to find. 6 major links at the top with say another 30 sub-links it better than 20 links down the side with no sub-links.
Regards
Jonathan
Thanks for the info.
But surely if you have all the links at the bottom of the page as well, then you wont have the problem of dropping your page rank. Ie you wont need to go index ->sitemap ->page. You can still go from index->page.
It's just that drop-down menus look so much more professional and make navigation much easier for the user. You can have far more links but they are easier to find. 6 major links at the top with say another 30 sub-links it better than 20 links down the side with no sub-links.
Regards
Jonathan
#4
Guest_CurlyKarl_*
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 10:15 AM
Hi Jonathan
>>But surely if you have all the links at the bottom of the page as well, then you wont have the problem of dropping your page rank
Correct, but it all depends how many links you have ?
The industry I am in produces a massive range of products, to link them all in from the front page would look ridiculous
>>It's just that drop-down menus look so much more professional and make navigation much easier for the user.
Agreed, they are very snazzy but I was looking at it from a ranking perspective.
Text links are equally as useable, but better because you can use key phrases in the link text.
Regards
Karl
>>But surely if you have all the links at the bottom of the page as well, then you wont have the problem of dropping your page rank
Correct, but it all depends how many links you have ?
The industry I am in produces a massive range of products, to link them all in from the front page would look ridiculous
>>It's just that drop-down menus look so much more professional and make navigation much easier for the user.
Agreed, they are very snazzy but I was looking at it from a ranking perspective.
Text links are equally as useable, but better because you can use key phrases in the link text.
Regards
Karl
#5
turbocashuk
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 10:21 AM
Hi Karl
I currently have around 20 or so links at the bottom of the page. I'll be looking at having 30 maybe in total which could still all go at the bottom of the page. So as long as all the links that are in the drop down menu are in the links at the bottom, we have no problem right?
Of course if you have hundreds of links that cannot be accessed from the home page then you cant do it this way. But luckily I dont have this problem.
Regards
Jonathan
I currently have around 20 or so links at the bottom of the page. I'll be looking at having 30 maybe in total which could still all go at the bottom of the page. So as long as all the links that are in the drop down menu are in the links at the bottom, we have no problem right?
Of course if you have hundreds of links that cannot be accessed from the home page then you cant do it this way. But luckily I dont have this problem.
Regards
Jonathan
#6
compar
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 10:59 AM
I personally don't think that drop down menus are all this cool. In fact I think they are rather non intuitive. I've been using the Internet since 1995 and I'm still surprised when I mouse over a navigation link and suddenly find a drop down under laying it.It's just that drop-down menus look so much more professional and make navigation much easier for the user.
So what would I recommend as an alternative? I would only have links on the home page to each logical subsection of the web site. Them I would have a "home" page for each subsection and the navigation on this "home" page would be to each section below it. Of course every page in the entire site should include a navigation link back to the index.html page and to the site map if you use one.
If you want to see how this works click on the link in my signature.
#7
Scottie
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 11:05 AM
Drop-down menus are definitely not user-friendly, as a rule. They require an understanding and an extra step that add an obstacle to your user.
That being said, if your audience is fairly web-savvy, it's not a huge concern. There are drop-down menus done well and drop-down menus done poorly.
SE's cannot follow the links in a dropdown, so as long as you have alternate navigation on the page (sounds like you do!) then they are fine.
That being said, if your audience is fairly web-savvy, it's not a huge concern. There are drop-down menus done well and drop-down menus done poorly.
SE's cannot follow the links in a dropdown, so as long as you have alternate navigation on the page (sounds like you do!) then they are fine.
#8
leftbrain
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 12:00 PM
Turbocashuk, here is a Jakob Nielson article on drop-down menus. Well worth reading. I don't always agree with him, but at least it's food for thought.
Having said that, I agree with Scottie. Use drop-down menus sparingly, and always include alternative text links to the site map and main category pages.
Having said that, I agree with Scottie. Use drop-down menus sparingly, and always include alternative text links to the site map and main category pages.
#9
compar
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 12:25 PM
Geez! You sure know how to hurt a guy. I was the first one to mention that drop down menus were not a good thing. Why couldn't you agree with me? :stunned:Turbocashuk, here is a Jakob Nielson article on drop-down menus. Well worth reading. I don't always agree with him, but at least it's food for thought.
Having said that, I agree with Scottie. Use drop-down menus sparingly, and always include alternative text links to the site map and main category pages.
#10
turbocashuk
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 12:38 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies.
I suppose the answer is if you got the links at the bottom it's fine.
I personally like drop-down menus. i think they look great on highrankings.com and make navigation very easy.
I suppose the answer is if you got the links at the bottom it's fine.
I personally like drop-down menus. i think they look great on highrankings.com and make navigation very easy.
#11
Guest_CurlyKarl_*
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 12:41 PM
Jonathan
>>So as long as all the links that are in the drop down menu are in the links at the bottom, we have no problem right?
Absolutely fine
>>I personally don't think that drop down menus are all this cool.
Compar, I do but thats my personal opinion.
I don't use them, but I still like the look of them, especially the ones you can produce in Fireworks
Karl
>>So as long as all the links that are in the drop down menu are in the links at the bottom, we have no problem right?
Absolutely fine
>>I personally don't think that drop down menus are all this cool.
Compar, I do
but thats my personal opinion.I don't use them, but I still like the look of them, especially the ones you can produce in Fireworks
Karl
#12
Jill
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 04:19 PM
I personally like drop-down menus. i think they look great on highrankings.com and make navigation very easy.
I think we have a problem with the words being used here.
HighRankings.com does NOT have dropdown menus. (At least that's not what I call them.) I have DHTML menu, which is javascript. If you're talking about that and NOT talking about actual "drop down menus" then all you have to do is put your links in the <noscript> tag and they will be followed by the search engines spiders.
Dropdown menus are those little boxes you click on that have a little arrow clicky thing. You often see them on forms. Like to put your state on a form, there might be a drop down menu that lists all the states and you click on the one you want.
That kind of dropdown menu is the kind that I believe everyone here were basing their answers on. At least that's the way I was reading the answers.
And for what it's worth, based on that type of dropdown menu, I agree completely with Compar's post.
Jill
#13
turbocashuk
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 05:09 PM
OK we definitely do have a conflict of terms here. I am not referring to the drop down menus in forms with the little arrow thing. I AM reffering to the DHTML forms like in highrankings.com on the top bar. I thought the one in the forms were called 'select boxes'.
#14
qwerty
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 05:31 PM
On a form, those dropdown menus (which of course needn't be menus) are called select boxes. In a programming environment like VB, I believe they're called dropdown listboxes.
In any case, when you use them as a navigation menu on a web page, I believe they require javascript as well. At least that's what I had to do to make them work on this page. And I did have to put in a noscript tag when I noticed that the pages being linked to weren't getting indexed.
In any case, when you use them as a navigation menu on a web page, I believe they require javascript as well. At least that's what I had to do to make them work on this page. And I did have to put in a noscript tag when I noticed that the pages being linked to weren't getting indexed.
#15
leftbrain
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Posted 21 September 2003 - 05:52 PM
Sorry Compar, I wasn't ignoring you on purpose. I mentioned Scottie simply because her post was the latest one that I agreed with. I should have scanned all the posts more carefully, and given credit where it was due. Are 50 lashes proper penance?Geez! You sure know how to hurt a guy. I was the first one to mention that drop down menus were not a good thing. Why couldn't you agree with me? :stunned:
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