27 replies to this topic

[mcanerin]

I will give you all the free general advice that you want by email, my newsletter, this forum (not by phone). But if you want me to look at your actual Web page and give you advice, you have to pay me.

Ohhh, I like that....

I get this all the time. Almost everyone I know, knows that I'm a legal guy and a computer guy, so it's damn near impossible for me to get through a party or get-together without a line forming about "my ex-husband did..." and "my browser is really slow..." and "hey, I don't have any money but..."

I like helping people - that's my problem. It makes me feel good to help others, that's why I went into law (and kinda why I left it, too ).

I think Jills approach would work well for me, I've been doing something similar for some time, but that was probably the most succinct manner of phrasing it I can think of. I'll steal it, it you don't mind...

Ian

[mcanerin]

A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. Color me the fool.

LOL - though of course the counter would be that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse..."

The main reason for the first phrase is that when you are personally involved, you can get "too close" and lose the perspective necessary to make clear headed decisions.

Of course, if you don't care about your case (or site) no one else is going to either...

The fact that you went to a forum and learned all you could from others proves you are not a fool (but you knew that )

Ian

[Jill]

I'll steal it, it you don't mind...

I'll send you my bill!

I agree with the lawyers not representing themselves also, unless it happens to be the area they specialize in anyway. My husband is a lawyer, but we recently hired one to represent us in our attempt to prove that the public school system has failed in educating our daughter in the best possible manner. (Trying to get them to pay for the private school we've now got her in.) It's been worth every penny to this attorney because special ed law is what she does, where my husband practices construction law.

Anyway, not sure of my point other than to say that whatever you're attempting to do, you need to hire someone who specializes in it. There a zillions of web designers who dabble in SEO. They may or may not be the right person for someone to hire if they are looking for SEO work.

Jill

[Jill]

I will give you all the free general advice that you want by email, my newsletter, this forum (not by phone). But if you want me to look at your actual Web page and give you advice, you have to pay me.

Further to this, I even make the distinction in paid consulting. I have 2 phone consulting options. One for $200 where I will only discuss generalities, and one for $600 where we get down and dirty with your specific site.

The $200 one, you really don't get anything more than what I give away for free in other venues. But some people just need to hear stuff rather than read it, for it to sink in. That phone call option is a fairly popular one as far as consulting goes. I like to do them too, as they're pretty fun and I get to talk to some cool people who are interested in what I have to tell them...plus I get paid for it!

Jill

[bwelford]

The main reason for the first phrase is that when you are personally involved, you can get "too close" and lose the perspective necessary to make clear headed decisions.

Ain't that just the truth! Indeed I would go further than that. Everyone of us is different. I tried to sum it up in an article, "We never know what others see.".

That's why I think Usability tests with real live humans are so good for improving websites. There's a great debate about the right number of testers. Five seems to be the minimum suggested. However I think the very first tester probably gives you 50% of what you are going to learn by doing the test.

Barry Welford

[mcanerin]

Yup, true

I do all my own contract work, as well as other stuff like intellectual property and so forth, but I'll hire a real estate lawyer when I buy my house. In a dispute where I may get emotional or it's really important, I'll also get outside council even if it's in an area of expertise. Hey even experts don't know everything - that's what forums are for

Let the experts do their thing. You should learn enough generally to know whether or not they ARE an expert, and to understand what is going on, but just because you have a general idea doesn't mean you have the experience and knowledge they do. You just need to know enough to know whether you are being ripped off or not.

Ian

[garyhall]

Semantics ARE fun when they are applied properly.

If SEO is your proprietary property, then patent it.

Hi Matt,

Please review my sentence again and tell me where I said "SEO is your proprietary property”. Please, do not read anything into what I write. It is O.K. to have something that is not clear questioned and ask to have it redefined. But to imply that I said “such an such”, can be generally defined as useless rhetoric that pleases neither participant in the end. I also find it interesting that I say I agree with yours and Jill's philosophy, but that isn't enough groveling evidently. (Just in case you think I am just being condescending, that is not the case, it is a sincere compliment.)

Humor is most difficult to be appreciated when it is oblique and I understand that and I apologize. I should have started out with, "This SEO guy walks in a bar. . . . ." I was attempting to play on words, evidently that was lost in the "Passion" of defending the SEO ethics and sort of thing. Reading the printed word on computer screens can sometimes convey different meanings to different people. We all tend to read into “thoughts” presented on the screen and then apply our own life experiences to them. The result is not always what the author had intended, perhaps in this case too.

Take this line of thought. I have made some derogatory opinions of certain members on this forum and I plan not to share them with anyone. One first thought (as you read this) might be that I am thinking of you. (And there could be a dozen readers!) Well unless you are indeed the person I am thinking of, then it is an incorrect assumption on your part. Those private thoughts are indeed mine and I am going to keep them secret, top secret in fact! BTW, Matt, its not you.

Anyway, that is my last word. I am not going to say anymore about this as I feel the pain of the internet forum cat-o-nine-tails thrashing about my digits while feebly trying to defend my honor. It was a substandard attempt on my part to explain "Top Secret" and be intellectual about it. My bad!

I know, I know. I said I was turning the PC off for the weekend, but I couldn't stand to be away.

As usual, my dear internet friends, warm regards,

Gary

[Matt B]

Please review my sentence again and tell me where I said "SEO is your proprietary property”. Please, do not read anything into what I write. It is O.K. to have something that is not clear questioned and ask to have it redefined. But to imply that I said “such an such”, can be generally defined as useless rhetoric that pleases neither participant in the end.

Gary - now you are being contradictory. Not that I'm trying to be an ass about this, I'm really not. But you made some very inconsistent and derogatory remarks that I took you up on. Thrashing or groveling was not intended, nor was it asked for, take it how you will.

I was simply extending your arguement to its logical conclusion, and I don't feel that I implied anything other than what you originally said, as you were very clear:

however my thoughts are indeed intellectual property and by virtue of the fact that they are mine and not yours. I am the owner, hence they are proprietary. . . .  And yes, I too get more business by helping out a lot, however my previous comments still hold true for the few SOB's out there for a free ride. I would love to live where you do, evidently you don't run into this problem.

edited 'cause I can't use a simple spellcheck

Edited by Matt B, 21 September 2003 - 03:30 PM.

[Jill]

Take this line of thought. I have made some derogatory opinions of certain members on this forum and I plan not to share them with anyone. One first thought (as you read this) might be that I am thinking of you. (And there could be a dozen readers!) Well unless you are indeed the person I am thinking of, then it is an incorrect assumption on your part. Those private thoughts are indeed mine and I am going to keep them secret, top secret in fact! BTW, Matt, its not you.

Bet it's me!

Jill

[leeclark]

This forum is worth while just for it's entertainment value.
I truly enjoy your disparate ways of saying nearly the same thing and then having a small "tit" about the miniscule differences.
Please keep up the stream of good SEO advise.


Grampa Lee

[Jill]

LOL...yes, we try to have a very high entertainment value. That's definitely our claim to fame.

Glad we can keep you amused.

Jill

P.S. Welcome, leeclark!

[Scottie]

Welcome Grampa Lee!

Then you are going to love it around here- we can argue all day about the same things and stretch it into 5-6 pages, easy. This one's just getting started!

[mcanerin]

Just because things are quieting down (and we can't have THAT...)

I'd like to take this opportunity to mention that it's way easier to get someone to pay for a "blackbox" that you can show results from, then to give them a "blueprint" and thereby take all the mystery out of it.

Worse, giving someone a blueprint just encourages them to not pay you at all and do it themselves - which might be good for them but it's really bad for business

I try to stick with giving them an outline of the major steps and what results (roughly) to expect, rather than a lot of details. For details, I tell them to check out the resources on the net on how proper SEO is conducted. People usually back off if it means work for THEM instead of YOU.

I had one guy (the "IT guy" of a large furniture store) tell me that he didn't need someone to "add a bunch of metatags and then submit the site" I pointed out that his site was not ranked by any major engine and SEO hasn't used metatags to any significant degree for years.

His response was to tell me to send a detailed plan on everything I planned to do along with a cost estimate. Yeah, right.

Sometimes it's the guys with the little bit of knowledge (usually from an article they read 5 years ago) that are the worst. Since I can't train someone to pro SEO standards in one letter, I'm not sure I'd be doing anyone a favour by trying.

I'll stick to giving them enough information to know I'm not planning on using non-compliant practices, and letting them know what to expect in general terms.

Ian