56 replies to this topic

[Jill]

I think that site and what they're trying to do is a complete joke (not sempo that engines-spam thingee). But perhaps this should be it's own thread, as it really doesn't relate to Kevin's article.

For my feelings on this, read Chris Ridings rant on the same subject. I agree completely with everything he said there.

Jill

[Scottie]

Go Chris! Excellent rant.

My point is not that SEMPO should set the standards for what is or is not search engine spam- I agree, that is the search engine's job.

My point is that there should be some business practice standards- in other words, people to take a client's money to submit them to 5000 non-existent search engines, people who do bulk e-mail spamming repeatedly (how many Traffic Magnet e-mails have you deleted? Today?), people who try to trick people into thinking their domain has expired or their "listing" is about to be dropped from DMOZ.... things like that.

If we are known by the company we keep, these are not the type of businesses I would want to be associated with...

[Jill]

You will be linked with them in the SEMPO directory.

There's already some companies linked in SEMPO who I personally wouldn't want to be associated with. I'm sure there will be many more in the upcoming months.

Jill

[qwerty]

Here's a thought. If the point of SEMPO is not to promote a set of standards, but to promote the SEO/SEM business itself, and membership is not to be taken as an indication of the organization's view of a given SEM firm, then maybe links to member organizations should be labeled as advertisements.

On the SEMPO home page, the right-hand column contains three sets of links: SEMPO Circle Members, Sponsors, and SEMPO Volunteers. Sponsors are clearly labeled as sponsors, and volunteers are volunteers. I'm fine with that, since anyone can easily understand what those terms mean. But a "Circle Member" is really defined as an organization that has paid a certain amount of money to SEMPO. So those links are in fact ads, and I think they should be labeled as such in order to clear up any confusion.

[HorseCove]

projectphp,

We have added the links to the Google webmaster information on the SEMPO Resources page.

There are no doubt many more valuable links that we should mention. If you see important links we overlooked (like the Google Webmaster info links), please let us know.

Thanks for the input,

Christine

[Bernard]

Search Engine Guidelines

• Google - http://www.google.co...guidelines.html
• Inktomi - http://www.inktomi.c...guidelines.html and http://www.inktomi.c...mpolicyfaq.html
• Teoma - http://ask.ineedhits...ms.asp?n=u#spam
• FAST - http://www.alltheweb...pam_policy.html
• Alta Vista - http://addurl.altavi.../addurl/new#rls

SEO/SEM Professional Organizations

• SEO Consultants
• SEOPros

[projectphp]

Thanks for the input,

No worries, and Nice one on getting it done so fast!!

It ios soo hard to please everyone, but I think with this sort of dedication you are on the right track.

Good luck.

[HorseCove]

Hey Bernard,

I was looking over your list of recommended links and it made me realize that the SEMPO site really needs a separate section that lists the major search engines and their important pages. I'll look into putting something like this together. I think this would be a handy resource.

If you'd like to help, feel free to sticky mail me. It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas.

projectphp - You're very welcome. Your input is welcome too.

I'll get the section together and then you all can help me fill in the holes.

Thanks,

Christine

[Jill]

Good idea, Chris. I think that would be better than just putting the SE guidelines on the other links pages.

I'm sure you have nothing better to do...

Jill

[Bernard]

Christine,

Thank you for the kind words. I realize that I am probably coming off as a PITA with regards to SEMPO, so I appreciate the fact that you are taking my opinions, questions and suggestions some consideration.

If I think of anything else that would (IMO) be of benefit to SEMPO, I'll let you know.

[Bernard]

This is precisely the type of situation that concerns me so much about SEMPO. What if the offender was a circle member? Would this be positive for the SEO/SEM industry?

Edited by Bernard, 19 September 2003 - 02:05 PM.

[Tenyque]

As I understand it SEMPO is focused on promoting the SEM industry and the educating people on the effectiveness of marketing through organic and PPC listings, making it easier for us all as SEOs to sell our services. "Authenticating" SEO services provided by SEOs is something done best currently by SEOConsultants. For SEOConsultants, as a "... targeted industry specific Vortal that contains a database of select Search Engine Marketing Professionals from around the world." we don't expect SEOConsultants to set up seminars and trade show booths. Yet there seems to be some expectation that SEMPO as a organization that "...exists to fill the gaps in awareness and understanding of SEM, including educating marketing managers worldwide about what SEM is and how properly implemented SEM programs can provide some of the highest returns on investment possible in the marketing world today." to authenticate SEOs. Such a organization near the begining of it's lifespan, can we really expect it to do everything? Should we really let another trade organization linger and die slowly while it debates best practices while project managers are dumping money into more banners ads thoughtlessly?

I don't see how SEMPO or our industry could be hurt by a Circle member doing an poor job any more than an "uncertified" SEO simply doing a poor job. Both give the industry a black eye. Through suggestions, SEMPO has added the disclaimer on the homepage, as well as recognizing SEO Consultants in it's link page as a professional organization.

SEMPO, as an organization, I would expect it to grow, things might change in regards to endorsing best practices. Then again, maybe things won't change. My opinion.

Sorry to hear about your situation Katz - been there. 301's and 404's are our friends, eh.

[Bernard]

Yes, Tenyque, this has been covered before. I do not wish to repeat myself. I merely point out that my concerns are still valid.

If you are interested, you can read the original discussions:

1st SEMPO thread

2nd SEMPO thread

[Alan Perkins]

Yet there seems to be some expectation that SEMPO as a organization that "...exists to fill the gaps in awareness and understanding of SEM, including educating marketing managers worldwide about what SEM is and how properly implemented SEM programs can provide some of the highest returns on investment possible in the marketing world today." to authenticate SEOs.

Who exactly is "educating marketing managers" - I mean, which individual people are doing the educating? What does this education comprise, in a professional organization without published standards? How would our $5000 as a Circle member be spent, and how would we measure the ROI?

I don't see how SEMPO or our industry could be hurt by a Circle member doing an poor job any more than an "uncertified" SEO simply doing a poor job. 

Of course they could! If it's not a member of SEMPO, it's nothing to do with SEMPO. If it is a member of SEMPO, particularly a Circle member, then it reflects badly on SEMPO, our industry (which SEMPO claims to represent) and the other members of SEMPO (what one member may do, so may others, right?)

This quote comes from the home page of SEO Consultants:

We currently have 188 active members who have been reviewed and approved for a directory listing as of 2003 September 19, Friday.

We've declined 432 URL submissions. Our Editorial Staff have reviewed 620 search engine marketing companies and/or consultants web sites since our 2002-06-01 launch date.

Less than one in three accepted, despite the fact that those submitting know they will be checked - i.e. the numbers are skewed towards those who think they are clean!

SEMPO will accept all these members. If I endorse SEMPO, and SEMPO accepts them, I endorse/accept them. That's the way I see it at present.

As Ammon Johns memorably put it in this post on the ihelpyou forums:

Originally posted by Black_Knight
The SEO industry is beset by charlatans, where less than 10% of SEO companies actually meet a truly professional standard, and less than 5% actually perform any original research into SEO knowledge for themselves. The vast majority of so-called SEO's merely read a few forums and try to make a quick buck selling on the knowledge of others (but without having the wit and experience to know which is knowledge and which is rumour).

That's a bit harsh, but IMO it's in the right ball park. Is that what SEMPO wishes to represent?

[Tenyque]

Indeed Bernard, should have spoken up then or created another thread; thanks for getting the links.

While I am not a volunteer in the SEMPO ranks and carry no duties (or authority) at SEMPO I'll take a stab at some of these questions that you bring up Alan, for arguments sake.

What does this education comprise, in a professional organization without published standards?

There are numerous babysteps towards search engine marketing understanding. Simply educating the client about what a SERP is, what it's parts are, how many times you can show up, etc, is something that must often be undertaken. Think of all the beginner questions you get and common misconceptions that have nothing to do with standards, wouldn't the questions and answers fill a book? For example, clients often believe that the submission process is where we submit what keywords they will show up for - we can educate them about the difference between search engines and directories without ever having to think of best practices or such concerns. From what I can tell of the SEMPO site, the glossary and the movement towards displaying case studies to show the effectiveness show an education on facts and ROI benefits, not practices.

Of course they could!  If it's not a member of SEMPO, it's nothing to do with SEMPO.  If it is a member of SEMPO, particularly a Circle member, then it reflects badly on SEMPO, our industry (which SEMPO claims to represent) and the other members of SEMPO (what one member may do, so may others, right?)

SEMPO will accept all these members.  If I endorse SEMPO, and SEMPO accepts them, I endorse/accept them.  That's the way I see it at present.

In counter point to this feeling, SEMPO put up disclaimer on the homepage saying they do not accredit their members. Since SEMPO does not accept/endorse them as capable SEO vendors, you would not either in your example.

That's a bit harsh, but IMO it's in the right ball park.  Is that what SEMPO wishes to represent?

I see this word, represent, often in association with SEMPO. When I look over the SEMPO site, however, all I see is promote, educate, spread the word. I've always had the feeling they are a more a lobbying group than a regulatory one. Just because people lament the lack of a regulatory body in our industry, does that mean a lobbying effort must incorporate one or fail?

Edited by Tenyque, 19 September 2003 - 01:04 PM.