104 replies to this topic

[Mike Grehan]

I was wondering if the Sempo UK meeting was held on 9/13 as indicated in their newsletter?  If so, does anyone have the minutes? 

Beth,

The meeting was held yesterday. Of course, I didn't receive an invite, not being anointed or anything. So you'll need to ask someone who was there what happened and whether there are minutes.

Considering the original list of committee members turned out to be non members... I feel certain that they will have non minutes either

[scolling]

[edit]

I was at the meeting (which was a phone conference) and I am a member of SEMPO, just a lowly exec. individual member and as far as I recall I didn't attend any anointing ceremony however I did send an email to say I'd like to be included - does that count?

Although no-one was specifically tasked with taking minutes, I'm happy to pass on the salient content:

Attendees were:
From the US
Barbara Coll
Meillisa Jordon
Debbie Eveson

In the UK
Paddy Bolger - top-pile.com
Jason Cartwright - gcdm.co.uk
Simon Collingridge - bizcomservices.co.uk
Edward Cowell - neutralize.com
Debbie Everson - searchmar.com
Richard Gregory - corporemglobal.com
Colin Irwin - spex.co.uk
Barry Lloyd - makemetop.co.uk
Martin Murray - interactivereturn.com
Phil Robinson - clickthrough-marketing.com

Andy Atkins-Kruger (webcertain.com) wanted to attend but was unable

(NB: These notes are in my words and are not a verbatim transcript.)

Everyone introduced themselves and explained why they were involved in the meeting and what they were hoping to achieve - all confirmed they were paid up members and there was a mixture of exec individual up to circle members.

A general discussion was held about the growing groundswell of concerns being raised on this and other forums about SEMPO's communications and approach to growth. One aspect of the discussion was on the issue of voting for committee members and similar, Barb Coll explained the difficulties involved in arranging a vote in new geographies when new members are joining every day and there are no local representatives to co-ordinate the affair. She also explained that at the moment it may be argued that SEMPO is not yet in a position to arrange voting for this when they are still completing all their bylaws however SEMPO were very happy for each individual geography to select their committee by voting if a leader were to step forward to push this through (as happened in Japan). Given the current climate no-one was too enthusiastic about putting themselves forward for this in the UK - I can't think why!

The discussion touched other topics including:

The prospect of arranging road shows to help promote SEM. Barb Coll stressed that in doing so SEMPO was not to take away from the value of SES and other similar conferences.

SEMPO's needs to make sure it pushes information about SEM to other people in the world, not just the geographies where it has members

The UK doesn't have to be a carbon copy of SEMPO US.

There was general concern over the level of negative communications from SEMPO UK members and this needed to be addressed.

The issue of whether the group should be referred to as a committee at the moment was discussed and the general feeling was that it was too early to make the group formal yet, and there was a general desire to involve the other UK membership in ratifying anything. As such it was decided that for now, the group will be referred to as the UK Working Group.

It is up to this working group to start the SEMPO ball rolling in the UK. To do this it was agreed to get the group together to look at arranging a UK membership meeting/communication/discussion (virtual, online or physical) and the working group would discuss what the agenda for that meeting/communication/discussion should be and how it would best approach the formation of a ratified committee.

No date has been fully set for the Working Groups meeting yet, although September 30th is on the cards at the moment, location TBC. As yet there are no indications for when, how or in what form the larger UK membership meeting/communication/discussion will be.

Simon.

Added content after initial post
Also discussed was the fact that there was a budget available for the UK, not huge, but there was one - no figures were discussed at this stage. This was raised during the discussion about how to approach raising the profile of SEM.

Edited by Jill, 15 September 2004 - 08:31 AM.

[Jill]

Great info, scolling, thanks for writing that up for us!

[Black_Knight]

I've simply gotten to the point where I've completely given up on SEMPO.

It comes to something when any group (I can't call it an organization with a straight face) makes LookSmart seem well organized, professional, generous and un-self-serving.

For me, SEMPO is a dead duck, and resurrection will not be possible without a radical overhaul of who is involved, and more importantly, the motivation behind the involvement. To my mind now, SEMPO is actually a disgrace to the industry.

[Jill]

It comes to something when any group (I can't call it an organization with a straight face) makes LookSmart seem well organized, professional, generous and un-self-serving.

[NFFC]

On the bright side I'm glad that Barry Lloyd is involved, he seems to have a certain level of support within the "industry" and I for one are glad he is there.

On the less than excellent side, and in keeping with the SEMPO modus operandi, it seems that every small step forward raises more questions than it answers.

I won't pick through things bit by bit but let me raise a couple of issues than trouble me, deeply.

[Edited mention of something edited from a previous post. - J]

The other aspect I find worrying is that it seems that however busy the SEMPO people seem to be they can always find the time to add an "endorsement" to their site. In your case "We're on SEMPO's UK Working Group" appeared very quickly on your home page. I think we have established that maybe the US centric SEMPO "leaders" don't have the best interests of the industry as their main priority. I would be_very_upset if the UK guys followed a similar path.

Edited by Jill, 15 September 2004 - 08:31 AM.

[Jill]

FYI, I removed a few comments in the previous posts about private communications between certain individuals so as not to open myself and the forum up to any legal battles. (I also removed a subsequent post pertaining to what was removed.)

Carry on...

[MakeMeTop]

"We're on SEMPO's UK Working Group" appeared very quickly on your home page.

That wasn't directed at Uncle Baz was it?

I wouldn't do anything like that - honest Guv

Ah - I think I see the context.

My personal opinion is that making any form of public announcement about being on any form of working group is a touch premature until the members have been informed. I see the working group as seeing if or how a trade association for the SEM industry could/should be set up in the UK, if/how it should be affiliated with SEMPO US and then getting input from both existing SEMPO UK members and from those people in the SEM industry in the UK who may be interested in something which could be either completely independent of SEMPO US or completely autonomous of SEMPO US by representing its members by promoting SEM in the UK, negotiating/discussing matters with the UK offices of search engines and PPC providers on behalf of the UK SEM trade, providing a central resource for punditry on the UK SEM market (Mike???) etc., etc., etc.

We should really start this all off by drawing a line under the SEMPO US moves in the UK. I'm still all for a co-operative effort in promoting SEM as a mainstream industry rather than a shadowy afterthought in the UK - but after all the mistakes we've seen happening in the past - we really should be starting this off without any of the SEMPO baggage (if that is possible)!

All IMO (of course)

Edited by MakeMeTop, 15 September 2004 - 10:07 AM.

[bwelford]

As a disinterested bystander, I agree 1000% with the point you're raising, Barry. As I watched the gyrations around the committee/non-committee members/non-members trying to figure out what it was all about (US culture invading the world?), I couldn't help but think, "You can't get there from here."

My image was of that mythical Phoenix that arose from the ashes. Clearly the past is no guide for the future. Rather it was a social experiment that showed some of the huge traps that are there for the unwary.

So go for it, Barry. I think a clean start is what is needed.

[Web Diversity]

Prior to working in search I did 12 long years selling insurance. There is currently a big storm of protest going on about the "ethics" of those selling policies in the past and the advice. We were merely the foot soldiers acting on orders given to us by higher management.

I was part of an industry that had been tarred, and no matter how hard it tried (or will try) to shake off the tag it will stick for ever. The actions of a few will spoil it for the many. They tried self-regulatory bodies, central bodies, independant bodies and none of it made the dodgy people any less dodgy or the industry advice any better, all it did was add more red tape to an already heavily red-taped sector.

What brought me to leave was seeing one of my team ( a grown man) reduced to tears by a beaurocratic jobsworth auditor whose job it was to "enforce" the "regulations".

I will always be one of the biggest advocates for this industry. I remember once getting a slap for calling it a "profession" as there was no governing body or standards or educational qualifications to speak of.

Unless the people spending the money feel they are getting good value the industry will never mature. So in advocating for the industry we spend a lot of time trying to identify those that are "clearly" (subjective but achieveable) adhering to worst practise and who spoil it for the many. For that you need consistency, defined best practise, neutrality.

I'll go on record, we are not SEMPO members, nor will we be. Nor do we belong to the IAB, DMA, even though we have looked at all of these bodies long and hard.

I have a lot of time for the "committee" members that I know and their respective business models, but their models are all different from each others and very different from ours. For their opinions/models to be "representative" of mine could lead to us losing both revenue and kudos from suppliers where we have worked hard to nurture a relationship, and that is something I am uncomfortable with. Nobody can assume permission from anyone, self-proclaimed or otherwise.

The simple fact is that for every advocate, there will be some individual/company whose motives are purely self indulgent.

I've tried to keep on top of all the happenings with SEMPO but is it ever difficult.

Because there is a lot more awareness and much more accountability for ROI, the branch of search we are involved in is in a rich vein and the issues of the black/white/grey hat methods have been largely replaced with search being accepted (because phase 1 for us is educate the client) as a bona fide and lucrative distribution channel sitting alongside TV/radio/trade shows rather than some black art.

Whichever form you do it's advertising, whether it's NFP or otherwise, you are selling something, beliefs, product, service. For us that's the bottom line.

All of the talk of organisations are about the establishing of rules and regs. relating to our behaviour vis a vis clients. What about protecting people in the industry from rogue clients/suppliers?

We've just pursued some bad debt where we did some work and our client (now ex) didn't pay. We passed it into the hands of our legal team who retained for their fees over 50% of the money recovered (including £19 for each e-mail). Why no "bad client" register to prevent other companies suffering the same fate.

I've seen so many "bad mouth" unsubstatiated statements about this industry, but part of me thinks if you don't belong to the self-proclaimed trade body are you by virtue deemed to be a rogue trader or un-professional?

I remember a client meeting when I used to sell web sites....... "why do you want a web site?".......... "I don't want to be the only solicitor in Staines not to have one"......

Why did/didn't you join SEMPO........

[bethabernathy]

Barb Coll explained the difficulties involved in arranging a vote in new geographies when new members are joining every day and there are no local representatives to co-ordinate the affair. She also explained that at the moment it may be argued that SEMPO is not yet in a position to arrange voting for this when they are still completing all their bylaws however SEMPO were very happy for each individual geography to select their committee by voting if a leader were to step forward to push this through (as happened in Japan).

what a bunch of CR**. Sorry it just makes me cry.

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

It dosn't make me cry. It may would have if I thought SEMPO would ever get any real influence on this industry. But I don't. So instead I laugh.

[Jill]

Welcome Web Diversity!

Jill

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi Web Diversity Welscome & big Hup for the Staines massive

[Kev]

I don't know if I have any 'right' to comment in this arena- I'm a designer who has had to learn about SEM/O and certainly I have no natural affinity for marketing. Maybe the fact that I'm an 'outsider' might be relevant. Maybe not.

I've read this thread and the other SEMPO threads with interest and the word that springs immediately to mind is 'shambles'. As a designer with no natural affinity for marketing it strikes me that SEMPO should be attempting to educate people like me. As it is the only thing I feel enlightened about is how rubbish they are. IMO, speaking as an outsider, this organisation is on the verge of giving the SEO/M industry an even worse reputation than it already has.

No offence to anyone,