111 replies to this topic

[Jill]

People have gone to jail for less unethical business practices, and that is where these directors of this company should be, Jail. I take responsibility for all my words on this forum!

For what? I guess I missed what they did that puts people in jail.

Are you still claiming that all the money they made from the member dues is somehow missing? Because if you are, where'd you get that information from? I've heard directly from the horse's mouth at the meeting that they have plenty of money IN THE BANK where it should be.

If you want to accuse people of something, then back it up with facts. If you don't like these people who chose to start this organization, using their own time and resources in a completely voluntary manner, then let us know why you don't like them. At least then we can understand where you're coming from.

Anyone can sit and post nasty things about people in forums (and many do just that), but it doesn't have any teeth unless you have some facts at your fingertips. Instead, Anthony, your posts just come across as if you have some sort of chip on your shoulder and something against the people who formed SEMPO. If that's the case, then just admit it. You spew some really nasty sentiments against them, which to me seem to be far nastier than required, as if they indeed are murderers or rapists.

They are people who formed an organization to increase the awareness of search engine marketing to companies who might be in a position to purchase such services. That's it. They're not criminals. They're search engine marketers simply trying to help.

So please, take that chip off your shoulder so that the rest of us can learn what the real problems with the organization are and help them get things in order so that they can continue on with their stated mission.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

They are people who formed an organization to increase the awareness of search engine marketing to companies who might be in a position to purchase such services. That's it. They're not criminals. They're search engine marketers simply trying to help.

Let's take this part by part.

Your first sentence is their stated mission from day one. Educate me as to how they in fact have done this over the past 1 1/2 years? For that matter, anyone feel free to show me exactly what it is they have done? What I "know" they have done is succeeded in making "themselves" more high profile. They have succeeded in the promotion of their "Circle" Members. Ask MakeMeTop how spending $5000 has helped him. He spent another 5 grand strictly because it's advertising. Is this the stated purpose of SEMPO? If it is, then they should be a "for profit" organization, and NOT a non-profit.

That alone is criminal in "any" country, including the USA.

And yes, they are "search marketeers", but tell me "exactly" who they are trying to help? Oh, I know....... themselves.

Give me a break please. This appeasing of SEMPO and it's bogus group has got to stop. How much proof do we all need to produce? How much more research do we all need to come up with? Why does it seem to matter that Jupiter Media are friends of "all" the board members? Who cares who these people are? I don't. Never have. These people mean absolutely "zero" to me. Many of us run circles around those kind on a daily basis. To think this group thinks they are leaders of something is truly laughable.

Let's quit making excuses for bad behavior. Let's stop being afraid to "tell it like it is".

my 4 cents

[qwerty]

That alone is criminal in "any" country, including the USA.

Um, what alone is criminal? The admission from Barry that he made money as a result of joining? The apparent fact that a number of the board members have promoted themselves in the process of promoting the organization? I don't like any of those things, but I'm not aware of any laws that are broken by them.

I don't think anyone here is appeasing anyone, Doug. Jill's and PHP's admonition of Anthony simply involved asking him to provide proof that laws had been broken. Obviously, neither of them believe Anthony has that proof.

We're all telling it like it is, but without hard facts, it's still opinion. But I don't see anyone making excuses for them. We want them to speak for themselves and give us the information everyone's asking for.

[ihelpyou]

Sure they have. Read all of Beth's research on how non-profit orgs should operate. You "cannot" promote the members of a non-profit. Period. It's against the law.

Further; speaking of all this money SEMPO has. "Show me the money"

They have paid about $25000 in salary to BarbC. Is she still getting paid? NO one knows exactly.

They have paid out $4000 per month to PR Guy for how long now? NO one knows. They did not announce that to members either. How many other people are getting paid? NO one knows that either, right?

Does anyone really know anything at all? Kind of strange stuff for an organization supposedly representing the SEM industry.

If SEMPO paid me $4000 per month as an adviser to get the entire setup completely reworked and done the right way, I would help them. I'd do it "hidden" with NO one knowing. I thought anyone could submit articles to PRweb for free? Aren't there many article places to advertise that are free? Why are they spending an amazing amount of money for this? It's all soooo darn ridiculous. Think back a moment; not only has BarbC and PR guy been paid for stuff no one knows exactly what they have done, but they also received the benefits of "links" from the SEMPO website and from articles, etc, etc, etc for ALONG time now. 1 1/2 years to be exact.

Let's touch on Google and Overture. How do we think they feel about all of this? LOL One can only imagine the embarrassment. SEMPO has been an embarrassment to the entire industry. I thank my lucky stars I "never" bought into their spin from day one. Many of us have consistently expressed our concerns from day one. Many of those concerns are indeed fact and have been fact since day one. NOTHING has changed since day one.

I'm really tired of the two-faced crap in and about the industry. Many of you absolutely know I don't talk out of two sides of my mouth. I never will.

[Jill]

Your first sentence is their stated mission from day one. Educate me as to how they in fact have done this over the past 1 1/2 years? For that matter, anyone feel free to show me exactly what it is they have done? What I "know" they have done is succeeded in making "themselves" more high profile. They have succeeded in the promotion of their "Circle" Members. Ask MakeMeTop how spending $5000 has helped him. He spent another 5 grand strictly because it's advertising. Is this the stated purpose of SEMPO? If it is, then they should be a "for profit" organization, and NOT a non-profit.

That alone is criminal in "any" country, including the USA.

Huh?

I didn't know there were laws in the USA that said something like:

"Any organization that doesn't complete their stated mission within 1.5 years shall be held accountable and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

Care to show us which law that might fall under, Doug?

Again, I'm having trouble seeing the crime here.

[Steve Sardell]

They are people who formed an organization to increase the awareness of search engine marketing to companies who might be in a position to purchase such services. That's it.

This was the stated image and on paper it appears admirable. One problem, however, is this mission was not exemplified. From their actions, the last two words could be replaced with *from them*. For some reason or reasons, SEMpo is a slow acting non responsive group. These are not the best actions to endear fence riding potential members. If they truly want to be an industry wide group then they should act for the best of the industry. The business perception of this industry is crucial, and it needs help not an impediment.

Some think SEMpo has accomplished quite a bit in the first 16 months, personally, I feel with the resources at hand very little has been accomplished. I see no problem with remuneration, as long as work is being done. It just does not look as if work has been done. The status quo was accepted, and although the same complaints were raised a year ago, I believe the recent uproar was totally unexpected. Or, it was figured, it would quickly be dismissed as the rantings from some who did not matter. I have an anathema toward arrogance, and SEMpo is exhibiting arrogance.

[qwerty]

I agree with all of that, Steve. They've made a real mess of things, and they are being very slow to own up to that. But where have any laws been broken?

[Jill]

Doug, it's statements such as yours and Anthony's that are completely "over the top" that force people like me and ProjectPHP to appear to be supporting SEMPO.

I will support ANYONE against boldfaced lies and unfounded criticism, regardless of who they are.

As you can see by this thread, I want answers from SEMPO. I want them to communicate with their members and the members of the SEM community at large.

But I refuse to let there be a witch hunt with conspiracy theories, lies, libel, and whatever else some of you wish to put forth.

Even if SEMPO and it's founders were the worst people on earth (and they're not), I would still stick up for them against lies. I would stick up for the worst spammers in the world if people were making stuff up about them, and I'd even do the same thing for people who might be considered my "enemies."

Let's have this discussion as one that talks about facts. Not one that talks about personalities that don't get along.

This has nothing to do with friendships and who you know or who you don't know. This has to do with people clouding the real issues with . Please stop clouding the real issues with made up crap, because it means we'll never ever get to the real ones.

[Steve Sardell]

The apparent fact that a number of the board members have promoted themselves in the process of promoting the organization? I don't like any of those things, but I'm not aware of any laws that are broken by them

After reading the IRS statutes it seems the self promotion is totally against the statutes for an NFP/NP organization. But, that is for an auditor to determine.

[Jill]

And that indeed may be one of the problems (mistakes) that they're working on right now to correct. If so, it would be helpful for them to let us know.

It appears that they made a lot of mistakes. The question (to me at least) is are they working to fix them? I think they are, but they need to publicly state this.

Jill

[ihelpyou]

Yes they need to at least inform their own members what the heck they are doing.

Maybe this will help a little:

"Another significant fact that will help demonstrate that a tax-exempt ... organization promotes the ... community as a whole, rather than private interests, is that the board of trustees and all committees with board-delegated powers require that, as part of their systems of controls, all tax-exempt organizations ... conduct periodic reviews of their activities to ensure that the organizations are operating in a manner consistent with accomplishing their charitable purposes and that their operations do not result in private inurement or impermissable benefit to private interests. Issues of special concern are:

A. Whether compensation arrangements and benefits are reasonable and are the result of arm's length negotiations..."

http://www.irs.gov/p...ege/topic-c.pdf

Page 7

That says quite a bit to me. The above was found by Beth. It's pretty darn clear. You don't really have to read between the lines.

[rustybrick]

Hey All,

I have also been extremely patient with SEMPO. I have clearly stated in my forum posts that we need to give them time. I have taken some hits in the forums because of my supportive statements towards SEMPO. I want to see SEMPO work.

This thread began Wednesday night and already there are 6 pages to it.

Jill, would it be possible to set up a highly moderated thread where you (or whoever you choose) asks questions on behalf of the members? Then someone from SEMPO (be it the PR guy or board member) answer those questions.

If I was on the board, IMO, I would have a hard time choosing which threads to answer, which posts, and at which forums.

All we can do is give SEMPO an avenue to communicate. If they post once, with a link to a SEMPO forum available to only members, then that is the first step.

I am a very patient person, but it seems like SEMPO needs to take action in the next couple of days. This negative PR is not good for them and our industry (the industry is the point).

[Jill]

Doug, I agree that what you mentioned in that last post, does indeed look like a problem. SEMPO did say that they've retained an attorney to look at that stuff, although that's all they said and gave no details.

If they are working on fixing things like that, then I feel we need to cut them some slack so they can get it done.

BUT...they do need to let us know what the problems they found are, and exactly what they're doing to fix them.

And yes, RustyBrick, it would be easy enough to set up a moderated thread or forum here to do as you suggest. I don't know if they'll post in it, but what I will do is take my set of questions that I posted a few pages back, and post them in a new SEMPO section....one where nobody else can post to.

It may end up going unanswered, but at least we can say we tried. I agree that we need to keep the heat on them to give us some information, and that's been my goal since I started this thread. I'll see what I can set up right now...or maybe after I find something to

[qwerty]

The document being quoted above is about "Tax-Exempt Health Care Organizations." It specifically says that in the head of every page. So apart from the fact that I don't believe it's relevant to the discussion of SEMPO, it may be of interest to point out what the document says is to be done about conflicts of interest:

3. Procedures for Addressing the Conflict of Interest
a. The chairperson of the board or committee shall, if appropriate, appoint
a disinterested person or committee to investigate alternatives to the
proposed transaction or arrangement.
b. After exercising due diligence, the board or committee shall determine
whether the Corporation can obtain a more advantageous transaction
or arrangement with reasonable efforts from a person or entity that
would not give rise to a conflict of interest.
c. If a more advantageous transaction or arrangement is not reasonably
attainable under circumstances that would not give rise to a conflict of
interest, the board or committee shall determine by a majority vote of
the disinterested directors whether the transaction or arrangement is
in the Corporation’s best interest and for its own benefit and whether
the transaction is fair and reasonable to the Corporation and shall make
its decision as to whether to enter into the transaction or arrangement
in conformity with such determination.
Tax-Exempt Health Care Organizations
Community Board and Conflicts of Interest Policy

4. Violations of the Conflicts of Interest Policy
a. If the board or committee has reasonable cause to believe that a member
has failed to disclose actual or possible conflicts of interest, it shall
inform the member of the basis for such belief and afford the member
an opportunity to explain the alleged failure to disclose.
b. If, after hearing the response of the member and making such further
investigation as may be warranted in the circumstances, the board or
committee determines that the member has in fact failed to disclose an
actual or possible conflict of interest, it shall take appropriate disciplinary
and corrective action.

There's nothing in there about criminality.

[rustybrick]

It may end up going unanswered, but at least we can say we tried. I agree that we need to keep the heat on them to give us some information, and that's been my goal since I started this thread. I'll see what I can set up right now...or maybe after I find something to

At least you are going all out to make it easy for them to answer the questions. I just hope they take your efforts as well as all the time spent by all their members in this and the other forums, seriously. How many hours do you think were spent discussing the problems with SEMPO? I am afraid to add them up.

Anyway. Thanks for your efforts and enjoy your