51 replies to this topic

[OldWelshGuy]

That's why I needed a bucket. It just goes to show how successful SEMPOhas been in getting its missions statement out!

Then again, who am I to comment, I never joined :-(

[peter_d]

Gotta love the timing of that release. Just when credibility issues are being raised, SEMPO public <cough> relations pours more petrol on the fire.

[projectphp]

If all publicity is good publicity, SEMPO owe Mike Grehan a fortune. I don't think SEMPO was even on the radar pre-the article in question. Now, they are all over the place. This might just turn out to e the best thing that ever happenned to SEMPO...

Lets

[Jill]

Danny responds.

And the board members? Many of those were people who attended the organizational meeting in Boston 2003 and did a lot of work voluntarily to get things going without any promise of being on the board or any idea that it might actually happen. Anyone who was at that meeting could choose to be involved.

Which is very true, and similar to what I meant about someone taking over Barbara's role, or any of the board stepping down.

The current board were those that volunteered when no one else wanted to, when there was a lot of hard work to be done, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

Danny has some other interesting comments too.

I think we'll all know the effect (if any) of Mike's article and the $78k stipend during the conference next week.

<Added>For those looking for others in support of SEMPO, Joe Morin has a good post a few down from Danny's.

[peter_d]

The current board were those that volunteered when no one else wanted to, when there was a lot of hard work to be done, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

They do. I think most people recognise that, however there are some fundamental issues that need to be addressed if SEMPO is to ever move forward.

It would be nice to see an SEM organisation move forward.

[Mike Grehan]

Jill,

Just a couple of things I'd like to clarify before I head
for the airport.

The current board were those that volunteered when no one else wanted to, when there was a lot of hard work to be done, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

As I mentioned in my article, I have close friends
and colleagues on the board of SEMPO and I have the
utmost respect for them. They have done a good job
of getting something off the ground and deserve the
credit that goes with it.

My issues are not with individuals, they're about a
fundamentally flawed and seemingly unconstitutional
organisation.

However, something which *can hinder* an association
is when one single person gets too far out in front
of the membership, and committees are left approving
just a few strategic decisions. It can then appear
that the association is developing a life quite
separate to that of the membership.

Many long standing trade associations have recognised
that, one, or a small group of members should not
dominate an association or you get the problem of
reconciling the "Comets" of the half dozen larger
companies in the sector and the "Tail" of the hundreds
of SME's (SMB's in America). It's important that
the membership should have less of a sense of the
big companies dominating association affairs.

A qualified trade association executive would recognise
that, what I've outlined above, is well documented in
trade association circles.

I think we'll all know the effect (if any) of Mike's article and the $78k stipend during the conference next week.

Personally, I would have no problem at all with paying
a good salary to a professional executive in the field.
Someone who understands the politics of running a trade
association and the cultural and diplomatic issues of
dealing internationally.

My problem is with the way that this motion to grant a
sizeable stipend was carried out behind closed doors (as
seems to be the way with SEMPO) and with no consultation
with the membership at any level.

As I've already mentioned to Danny, if Barbara and the
board of SEMPO feel they can appropriate membership funds
into personal bank accounts, appoint new officers and apply
policy decisions without ever having to consult with the
membership, at any level - then it's hardly democratic is it?
And that's an organisation that I really don't want to
personally be associated with.

Anyway, I've had my say on the subject. It may have ruffled
a few feathers but with any luck, something positive will
come out of the meeting next week. And y'know, I can't think
of a reason why the directors shouldn't resign and then put
themselves up for re-election. If they're right for the posts
then they'll be back in them the following day.

I'm very much looking forward to catching up with everyone
in San Jose next week. I'm having a couple of days at the
seaside first (Santa Cruz) so if anyone happens to be around
there, the beer's are on me.

Cheers!

Mike.

[thejenn]

....and here comes a press release to respond to Mike's article...

http://www.emediawir...7/emw145221.htm

Some snippets...

“Mike seems like a good guy and a very knowledgeable search pro,” said John Sanchez, President and CEO of Zunch Communications, a Circle Member of SEMPO, “But I think some of his questions about what SEMPO is doing with his membership dues were a little harsh and not necessarily founded in truth. This organization is just one year old, and Mike, by his own words, chose not to join at first, believing that SEMPO would be no different from other do-nothing professional organizations. When you come at us from a negative attitude to begin with, it won‘t be hard to find fault with what we’re doing.”

"...I think Mr. Grehan’s point about there not being a board member overseeing the UK is one we need to look at. As well, Mike’s call to have SEMPO become more of an ethics-standards enforcer and certification outlet are well taken. If Mike wants to be that UK board member or in some other way contribute to our efforts, perhaps he should come to the table and stop standing near the wall. Maybe we’ll see him in San Jose and we can talk it through.”

[eklages]

Touche.

I still think that Mike's other points seemed valid. And the fact that many others (ie. people in this forum) feel similarly, should let SEMPO know that the members aren't exactly happy about the way things are going.

[Jill]

Hi Mike!

My problem is with the way that this motion to grant a
sizeable stipend was carried out behind closed doors (as
seems to be the way with SEMPO) and with no consultation
with the membership at any level.

Yep, that part seemed odd to me too. But I don't know how these kinds of orgs work...maybe that's par for the course and how you do things?

Looking forward to seeing you in a few days!

Now gotta read the next press release....

[MakeMeTop]

If Mike wants to be that UK board member or in some other way contribute to our efforts, perhaps he should come to the table and stop standing near the wall.

The point has been missed, IMO!

Surely it would be a good idea for SEMPO to ask members from the UK if they would like to stand as a Board Member and if so, allow the membership to vote on who they would like to represent them!

The fact is Mike did speak on SEMPO's behalf in London, was interested in forming a UK committee and was a little surprised (along with the rest of us) to find there was already a European Board Member - complete with a European committee which the UK membership (who form the largest European country grouping of members) had not been informed of or consulted on and with people who (with all due respect to those involved) no-one in the UK seemed to have knowledge of and who certainly had no participation in the selection of.

Hardly surprising that some of the UK contingent (especially those that binned out a reasonable amount of dough) raised a wry eyebrow!

Having said that, SEMPO has helped gained me a large sale from a household name - simply because being a Circle member gave me added credibility and put me in the short-list. So, to that extent - for me - it was money well spent.

However, I would like to see the organisation move forward - and allowing the members the ability to propose, reject and vote on matters which affect the running and direction of their organisation must, IMO, be the next step!

Edited by MakeMeTop, 29 July 2004 - 10:35 AM.

[OldWelshGuy]

Clever head work there. It just makes me puke watching people trying to score points. One person is described as being 'CEO of the successful webmarketing company xxx' while the other party is described as being 'CEO of his own search marketing solutions firm'

It is just this sort of thing that winds people up, cheap shots have no place in adult debate.

The simple answer is, look at the written constitution of this organisation, if what has been done is within the rules of the constitution then fine, if not, then not so fine. I am assuming that a constitution has been drawn up at the founding meeting of course. if this organisation has been allowed to run without a constitution for 12 months, then again, not fine. I doubt this is the case though.

I really hope that SEMPO comes through this as a professional organisation, and that any mud slinging goes on behind closed doors, rather than via the PRweb network.

Something Mike said, is something that really struck a chord with me (and a lot of others I am guessing). over 80 % probably more IMO of SEO,s are one man consultants, are they represented in the actions of SEMPO. Scottie then chirped in with ' if they end up as being a big boy organisation, then fine (paraphrased )

Either way deal with it, get around the table, and IMO it don't matter how many appear on what business list or other that matters.

The first rule of most constitutions of non profit organisations, sports clubs etc is normally the same. 'The aim of the organisation is to promote the xxxx of xxxx' A mission statement, not a made up one that sounds good in sound bites, but a meaningful, 'This is what drives us on' statement, one that makes people feel proud of why they give of their time.

The Mission statement of this forum is on every page , up there, see it. 'helping Sites to be the best they can be' THAT is what drives me on to make the time to post here. Sometimes I just want to SCREAM down the modem at someone. I don't, I sit and think, and ask myself if screaming at someone would help toward making that person 'make their site the best it can be'!

Sometimes people lose sight of their mission in their task. Sort of, 'can't see the wood for the trees' Or can't see the lumber for the forest' for the Murcans

It is very easy to lose sight of the end goal, VERY easy to forget WHY you are doing something, when you are focusing on getting it done.

That's my last post on the matter I think, I really have said a bit too much anyhow, as I have not paid the piper, so really have no right to suggest what tunes get played.

OWG

[cre8pc]

as I have not paid the piper

Nor have I, though admittedly, I left the SEO side to focus on the user centered side. Still, I think its the reasons why SEO's didn't join that are well worth investigating by SEMPO. Not everyone was ever sold on it from the get-go, and for some folks, it was a hunch or feeling that something like this could happen that caused them to shy away from joining.

It can be boiled down to a conversion issue

I feel for those that paid to join and must now be concerned with how a poor reputation or bad PR might effect their own. It's not a matter of SEMPO defending itself as much as how it intends to protect the integrity of its paying members.

Kim

[Jbrookins]

It's not a matter of SEMPO defending itself as much as how it intends to protect the integrity of its paying members.

This is true to some extent, but not necessarily that great of a concern. The one thing I know about SEMPO is that the integrity of it's members was never an issue to begin with.

[peter_d]

However, I would like to see the organisation move forward - and allowing the members the ability to propose, reject and vote on matters which affect the running and direction of their organisation must, IMO, be the next step!

Indeed. It is also the reason many, like myself, are sitting on the sidelines. Apart from roi concerns from international SEMs, there is a desire for transparency, better communication, accountability, direction and true industry representation.

Hopefully SEMPO will rise to the challenge. They should start by listening, rather than shooting the messenger.

Edited by peter_d, 29 July 2004 - 06:12 PM.

[projectphp]

What was the point of that press release? Serious, what?

A press release is intended to make a point, and a very specific one. Usually, they are crafted, read, approved, reworked, politicised and inevitably watered down. Usually, the tone is extremely polite, to teh point of being sacarin sweet and sickening.

But this one.... What did this release hope to achieve?

Justification press releases are the worst kind. They simply serve to feul the debate. Surely a better press release would have been one that focussed on some of the issues, and agreed to fix them. Statements like "If Mike, as a paying SEMPO member, feels that he has not been adequately informed of goings on, that is a situation that we will do absolutely everything to improve..." would have been much better than

If Mike wants to be that UK board member or in some other way contribute to our efforts, perhaps he should come to the table and stop standing near the wall.

Ok, cool, but where exactly is this "table" that they speak of? Wasn't that Mike's point? No one knew what was going on, where it was going on or how it was going on.

Marks out of 10 for the release: 1, and that is being pretty kind!!