32 replies to this topic

[daniel]

Exactly Debra!! That's what makes it fun!!

The only problem is that even if a theory is shown to be true, give it a month and it will be out of date!! :doh:

Cheers,

Daniel

[Bernard]

It seems like it would be relatively easy for an engine to weight the anchor text of a link with the "relevance" of the page it is found on to that same text.

In other words, consider two pages:

Joe's Free For All - Add Any Link You Like!

Bay Area Fishing Association

both with identical links to a fishing service with the anchor text Bob's Bay Area Fishing Service

Would it be reasonable to weight the anchor text from Bay Area Fishing higher than the one from Joe's Free For All since the Bay Area Fishing page will score higher for "Bay Area Fishing" itself?

This might be expressed by something like:

anchor text reputation = base keyword/phrase score x page relevance for keyword/phrase score

I have no idea if this is currently implemented by any search engine, but it occurs to me that it might be a good idea.

[Mike Grehan]

Can someone please clarify this industry hub thing? What are they, and how do we find them -- specific examples would be nice..

I was just passing and thought I'd drop into this one to see if I may be able to help a little (hopefully).

I wrote a document based on my research into Jon kleinberg's HITS algorithm which first introduced the notion of hubs and authorities. My latest research for the third edition of my book looks at the fascinating developments of the algorithm in social sciences which will be, fundamentally, the ranking basis of next generation search (don’t get too excited you algorithm lovers ;-)

Anyway, you can download the document (free) from the home page of my book site: www.search-engine-book.co.uk- you’ll see the link on the left hand side.

And Jill is right about the way queries are handled at search engines. There are two specific methods: query dependent and query independent.

Google uses a query independent method where your initial relevancy score is calculated up-front i.e. before a keyword search. Teoma works with a different algorithm based on HITS which is a query dependent score i.e. it ranks according to your status within the community surrounding that particular keyword/phrase.

Of course, there’s tons more to it, but I hope this little introduction helps and I’ll try to pop back later to see if anyone managed to stay awake through the whole document.

I’m now off to pick some Roses for Scottie…

[Jill]

And Jill is right about the way queries are handled at search engines. There are two specific methods: query dependent and query independent.

Did I say that? I don't even know what it means!

Egad...look at your signature! I'm going to have to go hurt Scottie now...

Jill

[Mike Grehan]

Did I say that? I don't even know what it means!

You know what it means Jill Whalen. You and I have had some of those "stay up all night and read about algorithms" times together... don't be afraid to admit it!

[Jill]

LOL...but apparently you were the only one who stayed up!

[Mike Grehan]

LOL...but apparently you were the only one who stayed up!

The words "no comment" seem absolutely essential right now!

I'm outta here... later...

[Jill]

Fine go. But don't be looking for Scottie. She's locked up in a closet until the year 2020 when you will no longer be interested in her...

[daniel]

Joe's Free For All - Add Any Link You Like!

Bay Area Fishing Association

both with identical links to a fishing service with the anchor text Bob's Bay Area Fishing Service

Would it be reasonable to weight the anchor text from Bay Area Fishing higher than the one from Joe's Free For All since the Bay Area Fishing page will score higher for "Bay Area Fishing" itself?

I agree with you Bernard - and it may well be the case (or if not, it's certainly possible) that Google could include the title of the page with the link in the algorithm.

But that would still be related to the keywords in the search phrase. Going back to the bread and sandwich example, Google won't be able to associate 'home-baked bread' to 'fresh sandwiches', not without the documents being tagged with metadata, and an ontology (or ontologies) that state that bread and sandwiches are 'related'.

Maybe down the line it could work like this:

1. Both pages would be tagged accurately with metadata.

2. An ontology (or ontologies) would state that the subjects were the same
or similar.

3. From this Google could deduce that the pages are similar and therefore
the link from one to the other is 'on-topic'. Google could then give
more weighting to that link than to another link from an 'off-topic'
page.

The possibilities of this 'semantic searching' are amazing. I think I might have posted this link before in another thread, but it makes good reading so here it is again.

Engines that search for meaning rather than words will make the Web more manageable

Cheers,

Daniel

[azs]

Getting back to link text.... I'm creating keyword rich link text which I'll send to sites that will be linking to mine. First...should they always link to my homepage? Second, does it make sense to have several variations of incoming link "a href" tags using different keyphrases in each?

Thanks always,

azs

[compar]

Getting back to link text.... I'm creating keyword rich link text which I'll send to sites that will be linking to mine. First...should they always link to my homepage?

No the don't always have to or should they link to your home page. I think it depends on which page you are trying to get the link pop for. If you have a large site featuring different products or different subject areas then you may want the links to an interior page. The page they are directly related to.

Second, does it make sense to have several variations of incoming link "a href" tags using different keyphrases in each?

If you follow the conventional wisdom and only optimize a page for two or three keyword phrases then I guess you could have links using these two or three phrases. But I think what most people do is limit the links anchor text to the primary keyword phrase that the target page is optimized for.

[azs]

My client's business does have a lot of niches and I plan to optimize for perhaps 15-25 keyphrases over some 40+ pages. Does it make a difference if I have all incoming links pointing home (most general/competitve keyphrases) as opposed to spreading them out over the internal pages (more specific keyphrases)?

azs

[amabaie]

Common sense says:

First...should they always link to my homepage?

No. Results are based on relevance and on importance. A site that receives links to various pages would intrinsically be a site with valuable content, not just a pretty home page. Therefore, it "should" be preferable to have links all over. "Should" is the key word, and I would be interested to know if anybody has anything more scientific on this than my creative logic.

, does it make sense to have several variations of incoming link "a href" tags using different keyphrases in each?

Yes ... or more to the point, to vary how those keyword appear. For instance for a keyword phrase "yummy sandwich" (just to stay on-theme a smidgeon), you might have the linked text say "yummy sandwich" in one link, "Get a yummy sandwich" in another, and "the yummy sandwich site" in a third.

Why does common sense say to do this? Because all identical links look like they are generated from a robot and are therefore less likely to be the natural linking that the engines are looking for.

Again, this is my creative logic kicking in, and I would love to hear if somebody has a more sound basis for such conclusions.

[Debra]

Common sense says:

QUOTE 
First...should they always link to my homepage?

No. Results are based on relevance and on importance. A site that receives links to various pages would intrinsically be a site with valuable content, not just a pretty home page. Therefore, it "should" be preferable to have links all over.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the main reason we're linking is to drive traffic and make sales. So instead of asking the question " should they always link to my homepage" consider asking " where can the link point so it drives the most traffic and provides the greatest benefit to my site".

Once that question is answered, focus on the content of the link. Make it compelling ( so that people want to click on it!) and keyword rich.

Why does common sense say to do this? Because all identical links look like they are generated from a robot and are therefore less likely to be the natural linking that the engines are looking for

I'm not sure what you mean by "identical links look like they are generated from a robot " can you help me understand this?

[Jill]

I'm not sure what you mean by "identical links look like they are generated from a robot " can you help me understand this?

I'm guessing that David is talking about those "page-generator" types of software programs. You simply plug in the keyword phrases you want to rank highly for, and it generates all kinds of spammy pages full of keyword-rich links.

I hadn't really thought about identical links possibly being thought of that way, but I do have to agree with the common sense aspect to what he said. As far as I know, there are not penalties or anything like that in place at the moment, but I've not looked at that.

Thinking more about it, it would be easy for a search engine to discount the same exact wording of a link so that it only counted on instance of it on any given page.

Jill