32 replies to this topic

[jerry]

Links from sites that have information about the topic on your site are supposed to be worth more than links from sites that have nothing to do with your topic.

If this is a fact, my question is, how does Google know.

For example, a site that is about sandwiches and has an incoming link from a site that tells how to make home-made bread sounds like a good match to me, but how would Google know that these two sites are about the same subject?

If the "bread" site used the word sandwich just before the link, in the link and just after the link, would this tell Google that the two sites are about the same general subject?

Likewise, if the bread site had a link to a fishing site and used a link like this:

When I have time off I like to fish. (Then link to the fish site with the word fish in the link). After the link add a sentence like: "No one is too busy to fish."

This puts the word "fish" in the link, just before the link and just after the link. Would this make Google think the site is about fish and therefore count this link higher for the fish site being llinked to?

Bottom Line: When asking other sites to link to your site, would it help to ask them to use following words:

Sentence with your KEYWORD. Link to your site that includes your KEYWORD. Then another sentence with your KEYWORD.

If this would work for sites that really are about the same topic but don't necessarly use the same keywords, it looks like it could be abused. I'm preplexed.

[Farhan]

Links from sites that have information about the topic on your site are supposed to be worth more than links from sites that have nothing to do with your topic.

If this is a fact, my question is, how does Google know.

One way how search engines (Google in this case) determine if any two given sites have related content is through industry hubs. A hub is a website which links to a large number of sites in a specific industry.

An industry specific directory can be called a ‘Hub’. All sites listed in that directory have certain amount of relation in their content. For example an industry specific portal about Bakery and Confectionery products might have both (sandwich and bread) sites listed there, hence telling Google that the two sites are about the same theme and topic. So a link from such a site will be looked as an on-topic link by Google even if it does not have the keywords in the link text.

Bottom Line: When asking other sites to link to your site, would it help to ask them to use following words:

Sentence with your KEYWORD. Link to your site that includes your KEYWORD. Then another sentence with your KEYWORD.

It's a treat to have such a link Though not always you have control over how other sites link to your site.

[Keyword Placement Ltd]

Hi

To throw something into the melting pot with this one :

Its obviously essential to write relevant and on topic body text to keep things 'tight'.
Often sites use dodgy methods, tags etc to confuse and deceive surfers - not good

Keep on track to your subject and link only to quality sites relevant to your subject matter. Look deeper into the sites you link to and lets keep the web a healthier place!

Also the hubs will eventually weed you out if you are going off track and you may find yourself getting penalised. This is especially not good if you are doing this for clients and even getting paid for it!

skewed information and body text = poor quality visitors

cheers

[Farhan]

Also the hubs will eventually weed you out if you are going off track and you may find yourself getting penalised. This is especially not good if you are doing this for clients and even getting paid for it!

I am not clear on this one. How do I get 'off-track'? Why will search engines penalize me if the Hubs 'weed me out'?

Thanks in advance.

[Jill]

For example, a site that is about sandwiches and has an incoming link from a site that tells how to make home-made bread sounds like a good match to me, but how would Google know that these two sites are about the same subject?

From a strictly PageRank or Link Pop. perspective, a link is a link and topic really doesn't matter.

But it makes sense intuitively that off-topic links are not worth as much as on-topic ones.

Jill

[bwelford]

Jill, IMHO I think it's simpler than you suggest.

But it makes sense intuitively that off-topic links are not worth as much as on-topic ones.

Computers are dumb and deal only in blacks and whites. It's not a question of topics but of keywords. If the link text includes the keyword, then the link counts as a link for that keyword for the web page that is pointed at by the link. Or if the TITLE of the link includes the keyword then it will count for the targeted web page. Possibly if the text close to the link includes the keyword then the link may count for the targeted web page, but presumably with a lower weighting. If the keyword is nowhere near the link, then this link does not count at all for this keyword for the targeted web page.

Barry Welford

[Jill]

Correct, Barry, however, the link does count as far as PageRank is concerned. PageRank does not look at words and is simply a mathematical formula using numbers. Got nothing to do with the words on the page.

Of course Google integrates PageRank with their algorithm that DOES use words, so it all goes together. However, from a strictly PageRank point of view, a link is a link is a link.

Jill

[Denyse]

Can someone please clarify this industry hub thing? What are they, and how do we find them -- specific examples would be nice..

[daniel]

Barry, I couldn't agree more.

For Google to understand the 'topic' of a page, a metadata schema would need to be determined and the content of the page accurately tagged.

This sort of idea could be the future of the web, and could revolutionise the way search engines work. Unfortunately, it's still a few years away from becoming reality. It also opens all sorts of issues with regards to abuse of the system, but that's another discussion.

At the moment the Google recipe is all about keywords - in the title, on the page, in the link - with a dash of PageRank to season.

The idea of key words in proximity to a link is a logical and an appealing idea - but from what I've read and seen, it doesn't look like Google pays much (if any) attention to this.

So in response to Jerry's question, my response is that a link from a page about bread will not help the page linked to for a search about sandwiches. That is unless the link contains the relevant keywords for the search.

Others may disagree.

Cheers,

Daniel

[bwelford]

Re your question, Denyse, the hub concept is something that www.teoma.com, which is a search engine, and www.vivisimo.com, which is a meta-search engine, work with. Basically they try to group "similar" web pages dealing with the same concept.

If you do a search with either of them, possible groupings of web pages are suggested for further review. I believe Teoma may also use these groupings in their algorithm. They may give a higher weighting to links from a relevant group than links from completely unrelated web pages.

Barry Welford

[Denyse]

Thanks Barry,
Is that something like the french Kartoo.com

[bwelford]

Yes, Denyse, www.kartoo.com is a meta-search engine like Vivisimo but shows you a "map" view of how sites are "related". It is available in both French and English and I believe it is a UK company that created it. I have played around with it a bit but found it didn't work for me. Perhaps others have had a better experience with it.

Barry Welford

[Debra]

It appears we have a couple of different topics going within this thread -- how Google/search engines regard link relevancy, what and how hubs contribute and page rank! :laugh:

I agree that a link is a link is a link is a link. But I also believe that Google DOES give a greater weight to links with keywords in and around the hyperlink. Since Google relishes strong, keyword rich content sites, it just makes sense they look favorably on relevant links.

I'm going to go pull some info on hubs I have archived and posts again in a minute........

I have a quesiton concerning page rank I'd like to move to another thread, so look for it in a bit!

[daniel]

I agree that a link is a link is a link is a link. But I also believe that Google DOES give a greater weight to links with keywords in and around the hyperlink. Since Google relishes strong, keyword rich content sites, it just makes sense they look favorably on relevant links.

Keywords in the link anchor text are taken into account. Definitely.

As for keywords in close proximity to the link, I agree it makes logical sense, but you might be interested to read a cracking thread started by Sharon & Roy on another forum (I'd be interested in hearing if they have anything to add):

Keyword in close proximity to a link

It's certainly an interesting topic.

Cheers,

Daniel

[Debra]

Yes, I read that thread when it was started several months ago. It was a good discussion.

Like others, I am always interested in testing and proving theories - but - we all know it's hard to do that in our industry since the entitys that can validate ( or not!) our claims usually doesn't.

So until then, let's continue to share ideas and observations!