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Advice Required On Highly Competitive Site
Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:49 PM
I have come unstuck on one particular site I am analysing at present. The site has an allintitle of 19 million for its most competitive term which it was ranking #2 / 3 for a long time between the three engines.
Yahoo and MSN apparently dropped it a few months ago, Google dropped it into nowhere only a week ago. I have spoken with the prospective client and they assure me they have touched nothing. I have looked through the site, spidered it, pulled it apart and analysed it against the current top ranking sites with little or no distinctive indifferences.
The site is dynamic built with mod-rewrite and be doing very well for a long time, then suddenly just nothing....gone!!!
I know this our run of the mill question from many, but I think you can gather from the site allintitle question, that where not talking about an average site with average backlinks and development, etc etc. This one has me baffled. I have pulled it apart for about 4 hours now and still non the wiser to any problem.
The engines have the site indexed well indexed, except MSN only has about 6 of the thousands of pages? The site has quality backlinks same as other competitors. I have found some competitors have a PR8 backlink, but others in the top 10 do not, so even that is not the problem. The backlinks vary from 50 - thousands in the current top 10.
Have I missed something that maybe I thought I knew but just don't??? Before I start building new domains for individual categories, I would prefer to fix the problem if I could find it. I think making new domains and splitting the site could only be a bandaid to the problem. The site had over 4000 unique visits a day, and now to only 1500 uniques which is being held up with PPC until the problem is solved.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:15 AM
This is either something you have done or a se stuff up - because you were the only site moved.
Check your backlinks make sure the most powerful and themed links are still there.
Is it just the index page out of the serps or is it all subpages too? has all traffic stopped to this domain from se's?
Be sure though that any changes you do make you keep a copy off, if you happen to come back in the se's then you want to go back to your original files.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 02:37 AM
In the highly competitive world, something like one highly relevant backlink can give the appearance that you have disappeared, that I am aware off.
The site is still indexed in G & Y, but not performing what so ever. So the site isn't banned, penalised or anything else that I can see. I have been in and out of the site and the owner was true to his word that he has not used any naughty techniques. The site is clean as a whistle in those aspects and well optimized for a dynamic site.
My gut feeling is something has gone wrong in the backlink department, I just can't prove it because this is the first I know about it. The owner had done the site himself and purchased all his backlinks to achieve the ranking. I suppose if one of the sites he purchased links upon got smashed in the last update, then that would do it.
It doesn't solve the problem of why Yahoo and MSN don't like the site though from months ago.
I am very against creating extra domains. I am a big believer in sticking all your work into the one great site. Unfortunately, when the one site falls over, so does the business. I have noticed this with another dynamic site recently with Yahoo and MSN. Google loved the site, but Y & M just didn't come close to holding the pages that G did within its index. Y & M didn't rank them anywhere even close to what G had. What I witnessed was not normal, and now Y & M seem to be doing it to this site also. Both sites had mod-rewrite for the appearance of static pages.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 11:42 AM
Or that the site was down for a bit and although it appears in G's index, it's more just pages they know exist, but don't have them fully indexed? (Is a cache showing up for the pages?)
Are there any other server issues that might be going on? Any redirects or domain alias parking issues?
Posted 10 June 2004 - 04:23 PM
<added> has the hosting company moved servers or done any maint during the period, they might have moved him to another IP block and they could be suffering a geo filter thing.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:45 PM
Anthony - this may or may not help but, with your client's permission, you can put the site up for a site review.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:51 PM
Tis a good Idea though.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:24 PM
Is it possible that there's another site or domain out there with the same content that's showing up instead?
That I hadn't looked for, ie. someone duplicating the site and stealing the ranking. I will look into that one. The pages are cached and all good. I asked the owner most of these questions and got a no to all. The site actually achieved these rankings the good way, one domain, no cloaking, no doorway, no redirects, just professional (I was shocked).
He purchased many of the authoritive backlinks to hold the ranking, which is where I think it has fallen down on the Google side of the house during the last update. Backlinks changed, thus the domino affect. I figure when you talk in that sort of competitive arena, a slight change would make you look as though you've disappeared of the face of the earth.
I don't think I would stick it up for review for that reason. I got a couple of peers to go through it because I couldn't find a thing wrong with it, and the same results, nothing wrong with the onsite content. We all compared it against the current top 10 and literally pulled them apart also, cache, spidered, looking for everything possible. We found that most of the current top 10 had atleast one PR8 quality backlink and several PR7, where my client has now only PR7 downwards. An expert has offered to have a look at it for me to see if they can find anything. So I will have to wait and see.
I will definately look into that whole snatching the site deal though. Forgot about that one, which could be the problem in Yahoo and MSN for dropping of the face of the planet months ago. Thanks all, your help is so much appreciated. I figure many heads is better than one for something so highly competitive.
99% of sites the problem/s just jump out at you, but this is the first when I have to scratch my head and really open my eyes.
Thanks everyone, again, much appreciated.
Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:59 PM
Posted 12 June 2004 - 02:04 AM
You will need to make up your own mind on this one:
Large Sites Taking a Hit in Google
Link Structure Beats Google's Network Filter
"If you run a network of sites then there's a new algorithmic speculation you need to be aware of - the network filter.
First reported in WebMasterWorld and then in SEORoundtable, the network filter reportedly blocks the passage of PageRank and link popularity."
Posted 12 June 2004 - 03:22 AM
When you talk about those sort of competitive terms, one backlink drops out and it looks like you have disappeared, but have only dropped several thousand. Several thousand in 19 mil allintitle isn't much, just a backlink touch up.
The site doesn't have any link networks going, that was one good thing. He actually runs it as honest as the rest of us, so that was pretty good. A few minor problems in the code yelling for help with Yahoo and MSN are the problem, but Google is just a small purchase from a very authoritive site linked.
As for that large sites issue, that is more an indexing problem, this is more a ranking problem. All the pages remain indexed.
Thanks for the helpful gesture though. Much appreciated mate.
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