22 replies to this topic

[dzinerbear]

Hi all,

I'm wondering about the issue of cross-linking one domain with another, and when too much might bring you some trouble. And I'd appreciate your thoughts.

I have two domains (I can't give you the URLs because they're adult sites). Each site has about eight subdirectories. So, the URLs look like:

www.mydomain.com/keyword-keyword/index.html

Each subdirectory has at least two pages (some have three or four). And every week, I add another subdirectory to each domain.

Within each domain, I cross-link each subdirectory with all of the others so that people can jump from one to another (and people would want to do this, so it's legitimate).

I also had, up until today, a link on every single page on site A to the index page of site B, and visa versa. It's also completely reasonable for people to want to visit my other site, but I'm just wondering how much cross-linking between the two sites is too much. (I do not crosslink the subdirectories on each site with all of the subdirectories on the other site, just one link to the other site's main index page.) The links look something like this:

You can visit these other pages: KeywordA KeywordB KeywordC or Visit This Other Site

You can assume that I'll continue adding to each site, so theoretically after a year, each page on site A will have 52 links to it's own 52 subdirectories and one link to site B.

I'm particularly concerned about all of that cross-linking between the two sites. Is that too much? I try to run a clean ship even though it's "dirty" and I don't want to ever do anything that'll get me kicked out of a search engine or penalized, so I'd rather err on the side of caution than try and fix a big mess down the road.

Now, I know Jill will probably say, "Hey, why don't you just work on having one really big and good site?" because she always does but these are adult sites and things work a little differently in that world. Different niches; different domains. People who like vanilla ice cream don't want to see strawberry; people who like vanilla ice cream don't even necessarily want to see French vanilla or vanilla walnut, they just want vanilla. :doh:

Thoughts on the cross-linking issue?
Thanks
Dzinerbear

[qwerty]

My only concern with this is if it's a closed loop. If your two domains are linking back and forth, that's one thing, but if neither domain is getting a link from somewhere else, I'd be worried about how the SEs would see it.

[compar]

To expand a little on qwerty's question do you have any other outgoing or incoming links on or to either site?

Or are all your links incestual

[Scottie]

Hey Michael-

I think your strategy is fine as long as you get some external links too. I know we talked via e-mail about that- I'd do some research for you on places to get links but I've been educated enough, thank you... you'd probably better look yourself.

I really think a blog would be a good idea too. Ahem, I think you would have plenty of content for one. Also, think about contributing "content" to other sites along with a link; I would imagine there are sites out there that allow you to contribute stories and other items...

Another thought- why not start your own directory? Charge other adult sites to advertise in it and ask for a link back to the directory. If there's not already a site like that out there, it would probably go over well.

[Jill]

Now, I know Jill will probably say, "Hey, why don't you just work on having one really big and good site?" because she always does  but these are adult sites and things work a little differently in that world. Different niches; different domains. People who like vanilla ice cream don't want to see strawberry; people who like vanilla ice cream don't even necessarily want to see French vanilla or vanilla walnut, they just want vanilla.

It's the same in any world.

If your sites make sense to cross-link them the way you are doing, then you're doing the same thing as having one big site, right?

If what you say is true and the people who like vanilla don't want to see strawberry, then why are you crosslinking those two together?

I think you answered your own question!

Jill

[compar]

Another thought- why not start your own directory?  Charge other adult sites to advertise in it and ask for a link back to the directory. If there's not already a site like that out there, it would probably go over well.

There are probably a million of them in the adult -- that's a nice word for porn isn't it? -- segment of the internet market.

[Scottie]

If there are, I would pay for plain text advertising links in those directories, assuming they have reasonably good PR. It may be enough to get your rankings where you want and get those interior pages showing up as backlinks, Michael.

But I wouldn't know Bob- I'll take your word for it :stunned:

LOL!

[compar]

But I wouldn't know Bob- I'll take your word for it :stunned:

Scottie,

I'm not in the porn business, but I am involved with online gambling. The directories for these two activities are often closely associated.

[dzinerbear]

There are probably a million of them in the adult -- that's a nice word for porn isn't it? -- segment of the internet market.

It is a polite word, and that sounded like a judgement. Now, on to more important things ...

Yes, my sites have a couple of links from other sites. Some of them might be dynamically created, so they're probably not too useful. I'm working on getting more links, but it's difficult. There are so many scammers and cheats that you have to be careful who you align yourself with.

Any of the better quality sites that I've contacted, I don't hear back from. And I think that's largely because other webmasters are afraid someone will buy from you instead of them. I continue to contact good quality sites, but the progress is slow.

I've thought about the directory idea, but that'd be a lot of work, and policing the people constantly trying to steal traffic would be a nightmare. And doesn't a directory border on a link farm (at least in the adult business)?

And regarding Jill's comment. I see your point. It's a little difficult to explain when I have to keep it G-rated, but in the case of my two sites, there are a couple of good reasons to keep them separate. Site A: each gallery contains the come-on, pictures, and a short story; Site B: is galleries and the come-on only, and the galleries are half the number of pictures. So, Site A is kind of a premium site and site B is a budget site.

Both of my sites require the same kind of membership/password for entry, but since I'm submitting new sites every two or three days, I don't want people looking through the "new" section of the member's directory to be constantly seeing the same site. (I actually have three domains, but the third is a completely different niche.)

So, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'm going to look into the blog idea, and I'm going to get busy on the other section of my site, which is more g-rated, more of a lifestyle magazine for people belonging to my particular slant. So, it'll discuss political issues, book reviews, ideas, humour. And that's only going to be contained on one of the sites. People might be more willing to link to that.

Thanks again for the ideas, and thanks for the open minds.
Dzinerbear

[qwerty]

Any of the better quality sites that I've contacted, I don't hear back from. And I think that's largely because other webmasters are afraid someone will buy from you instead of them. I continue to contact good quality sites, but the progress is slow.

When you contact them, what do you say? In an industry like yours, where sites that aren't scamming people and cloaking pages are few and far between, I would think that the operators of the honest sites would welcome finding others with the same philosophy. Maybe the trick is to put up a link to them before you ask for one, and point out to them that you're already linking to them. What I'm trying to get at is that you need to make them see that you, like them, are different. You're probably already doing that, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

[compar]

It is a polite word, and that sounded like a judgement. Now, on to more important things ...

I certainly didn't mean to offend and no it wasn't judgemental in the least. I think the porn industry --except possibly at the extremes -- is as legitimate as any other business.

[BrianR]

Compar

Reading this thread reminds me of your valiant attempt to clarify the term backlinks. I think the consensus was that Google seemed to have invented the word and that it covered both internal links (that is, links to other pages within a single site) and external links (incoming links from other sites).

But now we seem to have a third type of backlink: Crosslinks, which I take to mean links between two separate but related domains which are owned by the same person or company.

So, if I'm right - and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm not!! - then I have a question:

I acknowledge that the main purpose of linking is traffic generation. But are there any guidelines/ wild guesses in terms of how Google in particular rates these three type of links for ranking purposes.

For example, can we say that one external link to a PR4 site is worth roughly the same as two crosslinks or four internal links?

And if this is a very silly question, then feel free to say so!

Thanks

BrianR

[dzinerbear]

When you contact them, what do you say? Maybe the trick is to put up a link to them before you ask for one, and point out to them that you're already linking to them. What I'm trying to get at is that you need to make them see that you, like them, are different. You're probably already doing that, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

No, I'm not already doing that, but thanks for being so gracious. And it's a damned good idea. I think as I work on the lifestyle magazine part of the site (of which the x-rated stuff will just be a part) I'll do exactly what you've suggested.

And your suggestion has given me another idea. I can start a community listing section of the magazine, which would end up being a directory of groups around the world that cater to men like me. That could bring a lot of traffic and links to my site.

And Compar, thanks for the clarification/comment. Being in the adult business, and not being a scumbag isn't always easy, sometimes I get a tad sensitive.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. You've gotten me all charged up with a new project.

Dzinerbear

[compar]

Compar

But now we seem to have a third type of backlink: Crosslinks, which I take to mean links between two separate but related domains which are owned by the same person or company.

I acknowledge that the main purpose of linking is traffic generation. But are there any guidelines/ wild guesses in terms of how Google in particular rates these three type of links for ranking purposes.

Thank you for acknowledging my "valiant" effort. Yes I think that crosslinks are another type of backlink. and that you definition is correct.

You open an old sore with this second question because Google refuses to tell us. My first post to this forum was on this very subject and when I suggested that Google should list backlinks in the order of their -- Google's-- perceived relevance I got called everything from a Google basher to someone looking for a free ride to the search engines. But of course we all know that name calling isn't allowed on this forum.

Now the speculation is that Google will diminish the value of some of the links to a page. It was my contention that if Google really wants to discourage some types of linking practices that they could do this very effectively by reporting backlinks in their order of perceived importance or relevance. Google's SERP for every other type of search is on a relevance basis. Why not backlinks?

If they ranked all crosslinks lower than relevant incoming links from other URLs then clearly people would stop putting major efforts on crosslinks and spend more time getting relevant outside links. But until they do your question can never be answered with authority. The best we can do is speculate.

Very unsatisfactory wouldn't you say?

[BrianR]

Yes, it is unsatisfactory - but it makes it more fun!

But my uneducated guess is that it that good external links have to be worth at least three times the relevancy value of either crosslinks or internal links.

BrianR