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Ways To Do Off-Page Seo For Pages Other Than Blog Articles?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 joshx2k1

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 11:58 AM

Greetings SEO Community!

 

I'm hung up on a question with regards to SEO strategy.

My understanding of SEO so far is that your job is to appeal to users first and foremost - if you're content is valuable, it will get shared and linked to, eventually pushing you up on the rankings.

What about pages on your website that are not particularly informational / useful for solving an issue for a user? How can one optimize that page for SEO?

 

Example:

Say you run a construction service. Once can do extensive keyword research on various topics that people are asking questions about related to construction, post helpful guides and tips to answer their questions, and eventually push their way up to the top.

 

With regards to promoting say, a landing page for their construction service, how would one go about that?

Would it be just internal links from your blog to point to the landing page?

Figuring out clever ways to get backlinks directly to that landing page from high quality domains?

Not suggesting one goes for link baiting or any practices Google does not condone of course.

 

I also recognize there are many on site seo factors that play a big role - this question is more for the off site seo factors.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!



#2 chrishirst

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 03:04 PM

 

 

 How can one optimize that page for SEO?

You don't. You simply make the page be the best at whatever it is on the site for.

 

When you "optimise for SEO"  you ARE getting it wrong!



#3 joshx2k1

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 03:10 PM

You don't. You simply make the page be the best at whatever it is on the site for.

 

When you "optimise for SEO"  you ARE getting it wrong!

In essence, you're suggesting we focus on being the best at what we do, and naturally our search rankings will improve?

No link building strategy, no hiring of an seo company, no keyword research?



#4 chrishirst

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 02:31 AM

In essence, you're suggesting we focus on being the best at what we do, and naturally our search rankings will improve?

No link building strategy, no hiring of an seo company, no keyword research?

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

 

Though if you want to hire an SEO, pick one that DOESN'T offer any of the following;

 

SEO link building

SEO 'article writing'

SEO 'submissions'

"guest" anything.

 

OR: 'X' pages "focussed" on 'X' number of "keywrods" for you webiste. and yes, that phrase was seen on a site that claimed to be for a "SEO Specialist".



#5 joshx2k1

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:40 AM

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes!

 

Though if you want to hire an SEO, pick one that DOESN'T offer any of the following;

 

SEO link building

SEO 'article writing'

SEO 'submissions'

"guest" anything.

 

OR: 'X' pages "focussed" on 'X' number of "keywrods" for you webiste. and yes, that phrase was seen on a site that claimed to be for a "SEO Specialist".

 

Thanks for the helpful clarification.

In that case, are there any off page factors to consider? It sounds like you are suggesting strictly on page SEO techniques.

Seems like it's a chicken and the egg problem - getting on the first page of a google result is almost a necessity for a company to survive in todays day and age.
I'm convinced that one can have the best product / service in the world, but without a proper marketing strategy, one can go bankrupt.

How does one show the world their product / service is the best, if they can't reach them?



#6 torka

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:32 AM

As to how you show people you have a great product / service? Same way that people built businesses to be successes before the Internet existed. :)

 

Market through channels other than SEO - depending on the nature of what you're offering, this might include any combination of paid advertising (digital, print, broadcast, billboards, etc.), co-op promotional deals with other related (but not competitive) businesses, content marketing (yes, this existed pre-Internet; businesses have been placing articles in industry publications since industry publications were invented), word of mouth, reviews of your product/service by influential industry experts, online networking (especially with webmasters of related -- but not competitive -- websites), in-person networking, a customer loyalty/referral program, affiliate marketing, social media (FB page, LinkedIn group, discussion forum, Twitter, Pinterest, whatever -- it all depends on where your audience hangs out), an so on and so forth. The only limits are your imagination, your budget and the laws of physics.

 

As to "off page SEO" -- of course you need links pointing to your pages. What you don't need are "built" links. You need earned editorial links -- where other webmasters link to one of your pages because they think it's a great resource they'd like to share with their own visitors. Sometimes this might be one of your product pages (if you have a really super-cool product) but more often it's going to be a content page.

 

This is where your site architecture and linking structure comes in to play.

 

Every page on your website should have a job to do. The thing is, not every page on your site has to do every job. Some pages are there to attract the attention of people who might not know your company exists. Others are there to demonstrate to those people that you're industry experts -- that you know what you're talking about and as a result there's a good chance your product / service is among the best around. Still others are there to give more detailed information about the specifics of what you offer and try to close the sale.

 

What you want is for your internal navigation and on-page links to guide your visitors deeper into your sales funnel (which will also serve to spread around the "link love" from those editorial links that point to your higher-level content pages). If what you offer has a longer sales cycle, such that people are unlikely to purchase right away (often the case for more expensive and/or B2B type products or services), perhaps you try to get them to sign up for a newsletter or download a white paper or ebook, so you can capture their contact information and potentially keep in contact with them. Otherwise, guide them directly to the sales page and do your best to close the deal (without being creepy or overly pushy).

 

Don't simply trust that your site visitors will "automatically" know what to do next. Every page of your site should contain an "action verb" call to action of some sort, whether it's an invitation to sign up for your newsletter or to click through to another page to learn more about what you offer or a suggestion they add something to their shopping cart or request a quote (or whatever is appropriate).

 

I think we've moved beyond SEO on to "site optimization." Site optimization is not about trying to make every single page rank in the top 10. It's about creating a total website where every page has a job to do and they all work together as a whole to maximize your conversions and revenue.

 

My :02:

 

--Torka :oldfogey:


Edited by torka, 08 December 2015 - 09:33 AM.

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#7 joshx2k1

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 02:04 PM

Torka,

 

Thank you so much for this long, detailed, helpful response!
I think about all the time how companies before the internet were able to market their product - so far we've had a real tough time focusing on a "push strategy" (the type of marketing in which we try and push our services onto those who may be interested based off their demographic / activites). The only thing that has worked for us has been PPC, where people are requesting additional information from our services only after searching for a term that we deem relevant to what we do (more of a "pull strategy").

 

It's tough to go the natural way of doing SEO, as the timeline until one can start seeing results can be extended 10x longer from the already long time it takes to see results from a targeted SEO campaign. In addition to that, in a market in which almost all of our competitors are investing heavily in targeted SEO campaigns (one's that don't necessarily equate a google panda violation), it's difficult to sit by as they climb to the top of the search results and leave us to page 25.

 

Either way, you've given us a lot to think about and I really appreciate your time!



#8 chrishirst

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 09:43 AM

 

 

In that case, are there any off page factors to consider? It sounds like you are suggesting strictly on page SEO techniques.

 

No I am not suggesting that, so called "off page" is promotion, I do not have the 'narrow view' of SEO that you seem to have. 

 

It has long since ceased to be about Google, Bing or Yah-ing-oogle (depending on where their results come from) or any particular search 'engine'.

 

Who is going to recommend "your pages" to others if there are much better choices?

 

Who is going to read your 'articles' if they are merely clones of other articles?

 

Search engines ARE sort of included in the 'who' by the way. 

 

What we are really trying to tell you is this;

 

Forget about search engines, they are NOT the ultimate saviour of poor marketing and their 'approval' should  NOT the goal of good marketing.

 

Promote your business in any and every way you possibly can and let search engines do what they will. Promote and market your business to people with the intention of getting converting traffic then it does not matter in the slightest whether search engines "approve" of your efforts or not, if they do, ... ... hey, no problem, your pages get some bonus visitors. If they don't ... hey, no problem, you get enough traffic and sales without them, ... and that last last sentence should sum up your "SEO" goals, ... 

 

You get enough conversions without the help of search engines.

 

When you get to that point, ....

 

Algorithm updates no longer matter.

 

Rankings no longer matter.

 

Link "counting" no longer matters.

 

"Penalties", real or imagined no longer matter.

 

And you are free from the supposed tyranny of Google, simply because you no longer 'need' them.


Edited by chrishirst, 09 December 2015 - 09:43 AM.


#9 Michael Martinez

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:50 AM

"Off page search engine optimization" is a funny expression.  Most people use it to mean "links on other sites pointing to this site" but it is relevant to far more than that.

 

Examples of off-page search engine optimization include:

 

  • Links on other sites pointing to your site

  • Listings in well-known (and used) business directories that mention or link to your site

  • Articles on other sites (especially news sites) that mention your business and/or site

  • Social media accounts that share excerpts from and links to your content

  • Webinars and other interactive media that create awareness for your site

  • Any comments you leave on blogs, forums, or other discussion platforms on behalf of your business/site (not necessarily including links)

 

It's search engine optimization because:

 

  • It builds visibility for and awareness of your site

  • It gives people something to search for (a unique site name or URL)

  • It piques peoples' interest enough to compel them to want to search for your site

  • It takes advantage of natural sharing and resharing of information that can lead to searches for your site

 

The goal of search engine optimization is to improve the relationship between Website and search engine.  You want to build interest in queries that should normally only lead to your site.  These are not necessarily the only queries for which you want to be found but they should be above all others that are important to you.


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#10 torka

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 09:18 AM

OT: Michael, I cannot tell you how much it warms my heart to see someone correctly using and spelling the word "piques." :clapping:

 

--Torka :oldfogey:



#11 joshx2k1

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 11:41 AM

Thank you Michael for your helpful and friendly response - that makes alot of sense...focus on promoting our services as a whole while improving the relationship between our website and the search engine.

 

Chrishirst, I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response.

Forgive my "narrow view" of seo...I am hoping my continuous engagement on this forum can change that.

While I agree with all of your points, I still have a few questions.

I'm going to play devils advocate here...they don't necessarily represent my views, but will help me understand how SEO works bette

 

 

 

Who is going to recommend "your pages" to others if there are much better choices?

 

Who is going to read your 'articles' if they are merely clones of other articles?

 

 

Ofcourse - there is no excuse for poor content in the hopes of gaming googles algorithm to climb search rankings.

What I want to know is how can we take really great content and put it in a place on Google where it gets the most views?

I hear the argument that good content in and of itself should get recognized by users, and that's where promotion comes into play as well, but many people hold that the best lead generation is straight from a SERP.  Trying to push inferior content up in the rankings? Poor practice. Working really hard on generating some real quality content to help those in your industry, and then investing in some white page seo tactics to push that up in the rankings to get more leads?  I don't see the harm in it. Generating quality content on your website without anyone linking to it is as good as invisible, and hoping someone will link to your product / service without a specific outreach strategy is unlikely (again, playing devils advocate).

 

Promote your business in any and every way you possibly can and let search engines do what they will. Promote and market your business to people with the intention of getting converting traffic then it does not matter in the slightest whether search engines "approve" of your efforts or not, if they do, ... ... hey, no problem, your pages get some bonus visitors. If they don't ... hey, no problem, you get enough traffic and sales without them, ... and that last last sentence should sum up your "SEO" goals, ... 

 

 

I totally agree with all of this - out of all the places to generate a lead (outreach, pr, social media), I still wonder if there is anything more effective than a top position on an SERP.
What I really wonder is if any business can survive if they are deindexed, or are lacking a PPC campaign. Sure it may be possible, but about 1000 times more difficult.

Given the fact that there are many "white hat" seo techniques that allow you to promote your product / service in a way that Google deems as fair use, which include generating useful quality services, I am still hung up on what is wrong with developing a strategy to get a higher result on an SERP.

Thanks in advance for everyone who took the time to read this!

 



#12 chrishirst

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:33 PM

 

 

but many people hold that the best lead generation is straight from a SERP.

 

I've heard that one as well, many times,  never found it to be true for the most part. Certainly for what are now called 'long tail' search phrases the conversion rate is pretty damned good, but these are the "bonus traffic" visitors that search sends your way. Chasing 'ranking' for specific words and phrases is almost a zero sum activity, because you expend so much time, money and effort into getting rankings, which you subsequently find are nowhere near the cash cow that you expected. Then, you find Google move the goalposts or declare you 'off side' and it all goes arse over tit!  You go down, down the slippery slope, not passing GO!, not collecting £200 and losing your "Get out of jail free" card all at the same time.

 

"Key" word 'rankings' are NOT what they were in 1999, which is the time that so many of the SEO articles are based on. The game has changed, there is still only one real rule, which is: "Don't try and fool the search engines"! But the Internet has evolved, search users have evolved because search engines have evolved and marketers and SEOs should evolve as well, but many of them are somewhat akin to the dinosaurs basking in the Jurassic swamps and wondering why it's getting darker and colder, unable to accept that what they did "a few years ago" needs to change. Here at HR the majority of people answering questions are the equivalent of the mammals, that stayed in the background and carried on changing and evolving right along with the search engines, because we learned that working with search engines was so much easier than trying to bend search engines to our will.


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#13 hookedonsocial

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 08:26 AM

I agree with everything chrishirst said above. There is just no point in trying to beat search engines. Sooner or later they're going to catch on to you. It won't be pretty then!



#14 joshx2k1

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 03:46 PM

Thanks chrishirst and hookedonsocial, i'm learning a ton here and I can't thank everyone on this forum enough for their time and effort.

 

chrishirst - It makes a ton of sense what you are saying. Search engines change their algorithms constantly, and trying to "fool" it's algorithm by making your website / service appear to be more valuable than it is will most likely only end up in some sort of violation, or strong volatility in the long run on regarding the position in the SERP your service comes up. The goal is to work with the search engine by actually possessing the value that many are trying to pretend their company / service possesses.

Here are a few more questions in devils advocate style that i'd like to ask to help me understand this even more - i'm looking to hammer this all on the head:

 

  • Given the fact that there are many "white hat" seo tactics out there that can help you're site, is it frowned upon to use one of them to gain short term results at the least? This way, you're site will surely benefit in the short term, and unless Google changes it algorithm for that specific optimization, may remain high in the SERPs even in the long term. 
    • ex: plugging in some keywords into google keyword planner and seeing that "home repair new york" get's 3 times the traffic of "home construction new york". Then changing your ad copy to include these words in your text, anchors, urls, headers etc.
  • While there are many things that Google is constantly changing regarding it's algorithm, is there anything we can reasonably assume will remain? One thing that I wonder is if Google will ever change the fact that one of it's most telling signs of a relevant search result is directly tied to the number of quality, relevant links pointing to that page. If we can assume that factor will always play a big role in it's algorithm, is there any harm in strategizing ways to get quality relevant backlinks from other websites in a non black-hat way?

What i'm wondering is if there is use in specifically strategizing ways to push your page higher in the SERP if it's a way that also adds value to your company (like outreaching to other company's), assuming your strategy does not involve anything Google frowns upon? This way, if you're page gets pushed to the top - awesome, more traffic. If it doesn't, the strategies you put into place should still add quality traffic to your website (like networking with relevant websites and getting a link from them).

 

One thing I totally agree, is that while it may be debatable if a SERP is the highest source of targeted traffic, one should never put all of his eggs into one basket with a marketing strategy. That means a mix between PPC, PR, Affiliates etc.

 

Cheers!

 



#15 chrishirst

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 07:05 PM

This "white hat", "black hat", "grey hat" nonsense is all brown in colour really. and usually comes in steaming piles poo.gif.

 

Sure, when the West. sorry Web was new, wild and untamed, the 1950's and 1960's "cowboy" movie analogy to 'goodies' and 'baddies' was sort of okay, but just like the "wild, wild west" the "world wide web" has been tamed, cowboys no longer "ride the range", the "goodies" no longer wear pure white Stetsons and the "baddies" only wore black ones in Hollywood, or Italy depending where they were filming.

 

It's time to grow up, and put away childish things (to borrow a phrase from some myth I heard as a kid) 

 

It's time to get WELL away "what happened in the old days",  as it no longer matters, sure, learn from the mistakes, but stop thinking in this ridiculous black versus white tactics, there are just users that YOU need to reach and involve in your marketing, ... ... HOW you reach those users is totally and utterly irrelevant, stop thinking in the narrow scope where search engines are ALL that matters, the Internet does NOT start and stop at google.whatever it is ubiquitous.

 

DUMP the "engine" of "SEO" and concentrate on SEARCH OPTIMISING

 

or

 

Or make "SEO" Site Experience Optimisation instead.


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