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All Doors To Link Building Seem To Be Closed


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#31 AvyGuttman

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:37 AM

No matter how great content is and how well informative and insightful it may be, there needs to be people who share and evangelise with others for it to spread -because people treat information like a form of social currency. They share this wisdom with others because it makes them feel useful in the process. Then again, cat pictures and certain memes are sometimes ridiculously useless and yet they spread far and wide. There are so many ways to market a site and the content contained within it. This takes having some form of audience to begin with and attaining this audience is a skill all on its own. The natural way to get people to engage and share your message is to have something of value. The next step is figuring out how to find the right people (possibly your facebook and twitter friends, word of mouth, various forms of advertising etc.) who will spread this and of course the multitude of marketing tactics that entice the offering. Let the people speak for you. Restaurants are a perfect example. The food can be utter crap but if the right amount and certain types of people speak highly of it, they will entice others to come to the restaurant,. When, as in this example, they realise the food is of low quality they will not return and will share their experience. If the food was indeed good this will further entice more people and increase the audience. Promotions work as do many markeeting tactics in building an audience and getting them to evangelise your message or product, service etc...such is the same with links.



#32 Michael Martinez

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 11:46 AM

Torka, if "they come" they have to come from somewhere, and the path of travel is always through links (that you earn, not place).  So I think we are definitely on the same page.

 

But people who complain about "build it and they will come" not working have rarely provided details that I can look at across a timeline.  I know you don't build something in a day except by rare, rare occurrence.

 

I do build links because they are important structures on the Web and because they are valuable content.  But the links I build for my sites are really intended to communicate with the visitors.  I couldn't care less if the search engines pay attention to those links.  But I'm not going to bend over backwards to take them out of the link graph.  That's unnatural and unnecessary.

 

If I build a site without promotion it's because I want to see what is working in passive SEO.  I have been doing that for over a decade.  You don't have to think in terms of "I can only do this" or "I must do that".  It's always a matter of choice.  What do I feel like doing today?  What do I really want to do with this site?

 

Marketing should not be the reason for building a Website unless you are in business to build Websites for marketing.



#33 AvyGuttman

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 12:01 PM


Marketing should not be the reason for building a Website unless you are in business to build Websites for marketing.

 

Marketing should not be the reason for building a website. Nor should gaining an audience be the drive to create something. The second there is a desire to reach an audience, then marketing does become at least part of the reason for building an audience. Bulding a website without promotion and thereby being, as you mentioned, passive in your seo efforts is kind of like art for art's sake and you learn from it on your own, with or without an audience. In this instance, you create for the sake of creating, and broaden your knowledge and experience.


Edited by AvyGuttman, 02 June 2015 - 12:02 PM.


#34 chrishirst

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:52 AM

 

 

Marketing should not be the reason for building a website. Nor should gaining an audience be the drive to create something.

They are some very broad statements, and neither should be construed as fact.

 

To take the first one.

 

What if the product you sell has a global appeal? no matter what you do or make in your third floor office or workshop in Hillsboro, North Dakota the world ISN'T going to beat a path to your door, so you do need a website for the sole purpose of marketing, and as for gaining an audience, ... Ever since we learned to talk,  pretty much ALL human beings want their opinions to be heard, even if not heeded. Where better than a website somewhere out there on the world wide web?

The Ancient Greeks had their agora, the Romans had their fora,  we in the modern world have 'blogs'.



#35 AvyGuttman

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 08:04 AM

"Marketing should not be the reason for building a website. Nor should gaining an audience be the drive to create something."

 

I never construed this as fact its a philosophical approach.

 

There are people who do not need their opinions heard or transcribed as odd as that may seem. Some people create art, even a masterpeiece and it sits in a room for no one but the artist to see. Does this mean the art in question is not deemed art or only becomes art once someone else sees it? A website can be created for no intents and purpose but for the sake of creating it. Strange, I know, but it happens.

 

I was reffering to this statement from Michael Martinez

 

"If I build a site without promotion it's because I want to see what is working in passive SEO"

 

I do agree though that by just putting a website online it is a "voice" and it is obviously best to promote it.


Edited by AvyGuttman, 03 June 2015 - 08:05 AM.


#36 chrishirst

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 08:29 AM

 

 

"If I build a site without promotion it's because I want to see what is working in passive SEO"

 

Nothing wrong with that approach, as it IS very useful for evaluating what kind of 'stuff' and topics can generate their own traction. But is purely of experimental value and not to be used if your website has any commercial basis other than maybe a few adverts to offset any hosting costs. 


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#37 torka

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:37 AM

For a business, unless the website itself is the product, building and promoting a website is marketing. Just as much as distributing flyers or running TV ads or hanging out a "grand opening" banner over your building's front door.

 

Even if your business only exists online with no brick-and-mortar locations at all, even if your business is simply monetized content with no physical products or real-world services involved, unless you're trying to sell the website itself, your website is not your product.

 

Sometimes I think business owners get so caught up in promoting their website, they forget the website exists to help promote the business.

 

Or, at least, it should.

 

Of course, it's OK to ask for a link every now and then, when it really means a lot to you. That's cool. If we go through life expecting other people to know what we want via osmosis or telepathy or whatever, we're going to spend a lot of that life being disappointed. But making a personal request for a link from someone who already knows you because you took the time to develop a relationship with them first is totally a different thing from what usually gets touted as "link building."

 

I think it might be helpful to think of it in the same terms as asking someone for a LinkedIn testimonial. You can send a massive canned spam letter to your entire contact list asking them to recommend you, and what you'll get in return is a lot of crickets chirping, and probably a bunch of people dropping you from their network. Or you can send personal, targeted requests to people who actually know you, who have worked with you or at least have some close knowledge of your work quality and ethics -- and you'll likely get a high percentage of them who do take the time to give you the testimonial.

 

That kind of "link building" I can totally support.

 

--Torka :oldfogey:


Edited by torka, 03 June 2015 - 10:50 AM.
clarification

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#38 torka

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:46 AM

A website can be created for no intents and purpose but for the sake of creating it. Strange, I know, but it happens.

 

True. But those are not business websites, and the people who create a site for the sake of itself, without any intent of promoting it, aren't the ones wailing over how "all link building avenues are closed nowadays." :)

 

(And I bet if you really dig down to the core of the matter, most of the people who say they just created a site for the sake of creating a site secretly hope their masterwork will be "discovered" somehow -- they just don't know how to promote it, or are afraid to put forth the effort lest it fail, or somehow believe there's something "icky" about promoting one's own work. I only personally know of maybe one or two creatives who might potentially be serious when they say they don't want more people to view/read/experience their work and who wouldn't be secretly thrilled to become "known" to a wider audience. :) )

 

--Torka :oldfogey:


Edited by torka, 03 June 2015 - 10:47 AM.
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#39 Michael Martinez

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:38 PM

They are some very broad statements, and neither should be construed as fact.

 

To take the first one.

 

What if the product you sell has a global appeal? no matter what you do or make in your third floor office or workshop in Hillsboro, North Dakota the world ISN'T going to beat a path to your door, so you do need a website for the sole purpose of marketing, and as for gaining an audience, ... Ever since we learned to talk,  pretty much ALL human beings want their opinions to be heard, even if not heeded. Where better than a website somewhere out there on the world wide web?

The Ancient Greeks had their agora, the Romans had their fora,  we in the modern world have 'blogs'.

 

This discussion is about whether you can market a Website without links (you CAN) but if your marketing plan consists solely of building a Website you're going to be very disappointed for a long, long time.  That's very different from saying you don't need a Website for the sole purpose of marketing; it's just that the marketing needs more than the Website in order to be successful.



#40 AvyGuttman

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 10:46 AM

Link earning is the main entrance, a door that can swing both ways and always remains open. Cliche alert...content that solves questions, provides information, piques emotions ( is funny, or thought provoking, evokes further and deeper study onto perhaps another page linked within the site, promotes discussion, informs, educates etc...) is relevant to the person's interest/query who lands on the content or clicks their way there...Valuable content acts as a form of social currency - a person will find something to be useful and benefitial and the many descriptions mentioned, then perhaps feel compelled to feel special and helpful to all those that they share with. This is ultimately how link earning should be.

 

But....getting people to see the great content you have on your site needs to use various marketing channels to promote your website and the pages/content contained within. On and offline marketing channels are ways to get people to become aware of your content and the quality, value and relevancy of said content may induce others to share and link to your content. This is natural (obviously) because it builds links without having to ask for them, but rather is providing something worth linking to. Content that is worthy, in itself "asks" or "builds" links. Earning in this manner is best, regardless of search algorithms.


Edited by AvyGuttman, 10 June 2015 - 10:48 AM.


#41 chrishirst

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Posted 10 June 2015 - 04:29 PM

 

 

Cliche alert...content that solves questions, provides information, piques emotions ( is funny, or thought provoking, evokes further and deeper study onto perhaps another page linked within the site, promotes discussion, informs, educates etc...) is relevant to the person's interest/query who lands on the content or clicks their way there...Valuable content acts as a form of social currency

 

You only need one word to sum all of that up;

 

 

 

Remarkable [Worthy of having remarks made of or about [it]. Worthy of attention.






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