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New Site Struggling With Page Rank


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#16 Jill

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 08:55 AM

The nature of the website's business sector (exhibition stands) is not really something that you can plug on social media (since it's entirely B2B),

 

 

Have you actually researched social media avenues to see if your target audience is there? They may very well be. But they  may not. You have to research it. And if you checked even a year ago, things may have changed.

 

That said, I'd take a look at what Dianna Huff writes. She does B2B marketing and writes a ton of great stuff on the subject.



#17 nickh

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:23 AM

 

Have you actually researched social media avenues to see if your target audience is there? They may very well be. But they  may not. You have to research it. And if you checked even a year ago, things may have changed.

 

That said, I'd take a look at what Dianna Huff writes. She does B2B marketing and writes a ton of great stuff on the subject.

 

 

This may seem naive, but if we target ALL social media channels, does it really matter where the target audience is?

 

And if URL promotion is now the primary key to modern SEO techniques, how did it work pre-social media?

 

And on a slight tangent, I'm now finding that my main search term is not listed AT ALL in GA's list of search queries.  Could this be because I've referenced it on pretty much EVERY page (albeit with varying degrees of relevance)?  I find it strange that it's not listed at all, yet over 100 other (far less prominent) search terms are...



#18 chrishirst

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 09:16 AM

 

This may seem naive, but if we target ALL social media channels, does it really matter where the target audience is?

Of course it matters!

 

"Machine gun" marketing is a waste of time and effort. You may as well throw 50,000 printed flyers from a fifth floor window into Times Square at 8:45 AM every day of the for all the effect it will have.

 

More is NOT better! When you choose your targets properly, you can analyse the results and learn where and how to put your effort in for the best results. Work smarter not harder.

 

THIS is where "bounce rate", "time on site" and all the other meaningless metrics start to have meaning. You take a traffic source then work out how useful or profitable it really is. This is how you improve your conversion rates. THIS is how you learn what real SEO is.

It's NOT done by "rank checking", it is done by conversion checking and traffic quality testing.

 

Where a URL 'ranks' is USELESS, where the URLs are that send converting traffic is VITAL.



#19 Jill

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:40 AM

This may seem naive, but if we target ALL social media channels, does it really matter where the target audience is?

 

 

I'm confused. How do you plan to target the "channels" so to speak? 

 

Social media is made up of people. It's people you have to target by friending, following, becoming part of their groups, etc. There's no such thing as targeting the entire channel, it doesn't really make sense, IMO.

 

And if URL promotion is now the primary key to modern SEO techniques, how did it work pre-social media?

 

 

The other places like-minded individuals hung out. Forums, chat rooms, whatever.

 

And on a slight tangent, I'm now finding that my main search term is not listed AT ALL in GA's list of search queries. 

 

 

Most of the queries to your site these days will show as "(not provide)" so you can't go by what you see in any analytics tool anymore, unfortunately.



#20 chrishirst

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:11 PM

 

And on a slight tangent, I'm now finding that my main search term is not listed AT ALL in GA's list of search queries.

I missed this bit,

 

This is why monitoring your promotional work is important. By watching what anchor text is being clicked through from what PAGES not 'sites' you get to understand what that section of your audience is finding 'interesting', you do not get the keywords from search any more, other than the ones in the webmaster tools data, which may, or may not be complete or comprehensive. So your answers have to come from real people clicking through the carefully worded anchor text. Worded for the audience response NOT because it is "your most important 'key' word/phrase".



#21 nickh

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:23 PM

Ok.

 

So let's take social media completely out of the question (bear with me here)...

 

If we made the assumption that my target audience ONLY used Google to find the companies they're looking for, and that they ONLY looked at the top 5 sites (as listed by Google), and that once they made it to my site, they would almost certainly be converted into new business, THEN would your approach change?

 

I understand (and completely agree with) what you're both saying about understanding which links within the site generate interest, etc, but at the end of the day, my target audience are looking for the FIRST website that can prove that they're capable of doing the job (making yet another assumption - that the site's content was perfect!).

 

Am I still missing your underlying point, or am I not making mine clear enough? - If [company X] searches for [search term Y] AND [my website] is above the fold on the 1st search results page, then my job is done.  Correct?



#22 chrishirst

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:31 AM

 

If we made the assumption that my target audience ONLY used Google to find the companies they're looking for, and that they ONLY looked at the top 5 sites (as listed by Google), and that once they made it to my site, they would almost certainly be converted into new business, THEN would your approach change?

 

My approach would NOT change, mainly because I would not make silly assumptions like those.

 

Just because a visitor arrives from Google search doesn't mean that it WILL be a conversion

 

 

Am I still missing your underlying point, or am I not making mine clear enough? - If [company X] searches for [search term Y] AND [my website] is above the fold on the 1st search results page, then my job is done.  Correct?

Incorrect,

 

You are assuming the following:

 

That if you see the URL in search results then EVERYBODY must see it in their search results. It has been over ten years since that was the case.

 

 

I understand (and completely agree with) what you're both saying about understanding which links within the site generate interest,

It's NOT the links on YOUR site, it is the links (and the anchor text) on OTHER SITES that really matter. You have to get their interest WAY WAY before they land on your URLs.

 

 

 

but at the end of the day, my target audience are looking for the FIRST website that can prove that they're capable of doing the job

 

Nope, they are looking for the RIGHT website PAGE (URL)  which may, or may not be the first one they choose to look at.

 

You are making this rather strange assumption that Search engine referrals are instant conversions, which is wholly and totally incorrect. Certainly SOME SE referrals will convert instantly but those are the "long tail" of search queries, the highly specific queries which most often come about because SE user go back to the results and refine their search query because their first batch of  results did not yield accurate enough results.

The quaint idea that searchers expect to and always will find exactly what they are looking for in the first five results on page 1 of 100 may have been sort of true fifteen - twenty years ago, but not any more Search has grown up and users have grown up WITH search.

They know that there are more than the first 'page' of results and they DO look at them and click through to those results.



#23 nickh

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 07:05 AM

Sorry Chris, but I think we're talking about two different things here:

 

- Logical approaches to encouraging interaction within a website

- Actually getting them to the website in the first place - SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMISATION - optimising the website to make it appear as high as possible in the Google search results

 

I'm obviously only interested in the latter - AND NOTHING MORE.  The reason I made those "silly" assumptions was to drive the conversation towards exactly this.  The people responsible for generating the business in the company are ONLY interested in improving the site's position in Google (since that is where they believe most (if not all) referrals will come from, based upon a historical understanding of the target audience - whether this is true or not, I DO NOT CARE!...I am simply tasked to do what they request).  Whether their logic is completely wrong is entirely irrelevant.

 

 

The quaint idea that searchers expect to and always will find exactly what they are looking for in the first five results on page 1 of 100 may have been sort of true fifteen - twenty years ago, but not any more Search has grown up and users have grown up WITH search.

They know that there are more than the first 'page' of results and they DO look at them and click through to those results.

 

Although I take your point about people becoming more and more familiar with search techniques (meta searching, the use of quotes, etc), I strongly disagree that the importance of those first 5 results has changed.

 

I'm sure you've seen this sort of thing before (and I'm not trying to patronise), but it's hard to argue the above when you see data like this:

 

percentage-of-google-traffic-by-results-

 

Assuming your audience know HOW to search for your site, then this clearly shows that if your site is not on the first page, you might as well not have a website (again - assuming that traffic via Google is the only referrer (as I'm being constantly told by the people with historical knowledge of the audience!)).

 

I feel that I've taken enough of your time already, so I'll just leave it at this:

 

What am I missing on this particular website that is resulting in such poor search result listing positions (and in many scenarios, no search results AT ALL!)?!



#24 Jill

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 09:32 AM

The problem, Nickh, is that Google itself will only rank sites highly for their relevant phrases if they see good faith that the site owners care about marketing their businesses beyond free organic listings.

 

So you're in a bit of a conundrum. 



#25 chrishirst

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:19 AM

 
SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMISATION - optimising the website to make it appear as high as possible in the Google search results

No it is NOT!!!!!
 
That is where you are going wrong. You are applying 1990's thinking to the "new millennium"  search engines.

 
 The people responsible for generating the business in the company are ONLY interested in improving the site's position in Google (since that is where they believe most (if not all) referrals will come from, based upon a historical understanding of the target audience - whether this is true or not, I DO NOT CARE!...I am simply tasked to do what they request).  Whether their logic is completely wrong is entirely irrelevant.

 
Then YOU are on a "hiding to nothing" YOU cannot, ever fulfil their wishes SO you may as well give up now rather than prolong the agony.
 
Whether you care or NOT does NOT matter, you can NEVER live up to their expectations. You do not seem to understand that it is not YOUR results that are "personalised" it is EVERYBODY'S
 
 
If you read nothing else in this article; http://webmaster-tal...he-google-dance READ and UNDERSTAND the last paragraph, because that IS where you are going to be ... Sooner rather than later.

#26 Michael Martinez

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:19 PM

When searchers cannot find what they are looking for they will change their query, so even if we assume for the sake of discussion that no one ever clicks through to the second page of results, they will still change their queries.

Hence, you're thinking about one query and everyone else is thinking about thousands.

Building a site that is relevant to thousands of queries brings in a lot of qualified organic search traffic. Not worrying about where you rank for those queries, but instead measuring your success in terms of growth in interested traffic and conversions is how you should be optimizing for search.
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