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Why Is This Topic So Sensitive ?


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14 replies to this topic

#1 reseo

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 07:54 PM

Hello Hello,

 

I just wanted to ask a general question. I just started my digital SEO journey a few month ago and I noticed that many people are extreme sensitive and unfriendly when it comes to comments. Especially, if you comment on something and you mention an article that you have been publishing on your own blog.

 

BOOM: You are a Spammer !

 

I can see that tones of auto-bots are flooding comments - but what I do not understand is the fact that when ever you post a link to something absolute related and useful - people start immediately to attack you.

Maybe it's just me and I didn't realize how aggressive the SEO World is - but on the other side, I think it's also kind a sad.

 

For instance:

It's absolutely clear that if you join a community, an open forum, that people want to discuss specific things.

Related things. It's also obvious, if you are talking about dog topics and you post something about Viagra Pills - well, what else to explain - it's clear that this hasn't anything to do with dog training.

 

But what I don't understand is if you just post something that is absolutely related... why do people immediately stamp you as a spammer these days ?

Is it just a general Spamophobia ?

 

My intentions are always the same - I try to reach out, connect with people, share different thoughts, listen to different opinions and discuss certain things, strategies, ideas, what ever is related and belongs to a specific topic indicated already within the thread title.

 

I am really confused especially when it comes to sharing content.

For instance, if someone has questions and is posting his questions in an open public social media community...  they are obviously looking for answers.

 

Well.. some answers can't be simple commented within a few words - most of the time it takes much more - that's why you write an article about it.

And so it kind a makes sense to link to that specific article - with the intention to give answers, or a different perspective of view, to simple discuss things.

 

However, when ever I try to do so or did in the past.. people immediately freak out !

 

Sooo.. maybe this is just my personal experience - but yes, I still do not understand it and would like to ask for all your opinions and thoughts about it.

 

For me it's simple:

I connect with communities to share infos, experiences, knowledge and simple discuss things with the same interest.

 

Why does it have to be such a problem and fight ?

 

 

Okydoky..  like always, thank you for every little comment, hint and help -appreciate it !


Edited by reseo, 21 August 2014 - 07:57 PM.


#2 chrishirst

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:53 AM

 

Related things. It's also obvious, if you are talking about dog topics and you post something about Viagra Pills - well, what else to explain - it's clear that this hasn't anything to do with dog training.

Not necessarily, It all depends on what you are training the dog to do for you.

 

 

 

 

But what I don't understand is if you just post something that is absolutely related... why do people immediately stamp you as a spammer these days ?

Is it just a general Spamophobia ?

Because we are all really, really, REALLY pissed of with spammers vandalising everything they find.

 

 

My intentions are always the same - I try to reach out, connect with people, share different thoughts, listen to different opinions and discuss certain things, strategies, ideas, what ever is related and belongs to a specific topic indicated already within the thread title.

The trick is:

 

 

 

 

To actually make it really look like this; ....

 

 

For me it's simple:

I connect with communities to share infos, experiences, knowledge and simple discuss things with the same interest.

 

IS the reason why you are posting.

 

And to do that;

 

you simply have to prove yourself to the community BEFORE dropping any self promo links.


Edited by chrishirst, 22 August 2014 - 05:54 AM.


#3 torka

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:36 AM

It depends on the community's rules. At another forum where I moderate, we don't allow links back to one's own site at all, except possibly within certain very limited circumstances. (Linking to an article you wrote rather than posting the actual answer because you don't want to take the time to type out a full answer would not be one of those circumstances.) So anybody who posted a link to an article on their own site as the answer to a question, no matter how well-intentioned, would likely find that post deleted.

 

In addition to the out-and-out spammers, we were dealing with poorly informed individuals who might have thought they were being helpful, but whose articles were crammed with outdated and flat-out wrong "information." Rather than spending tons of (unpaid) time weeding through all the links that got posted to determine which were actually useful versus which ones were well-intentioned but misinformed and those that were your basic garden-variety spam... we just decided to ban links back to one's own site.

 

Beyond that, it takes a lot of time and resources to run a forum. Like any website owner, the forum managers would like to keep people on their site. When you post a link to an article you've written rather than an actual answer, you're encouraging people to leave the forum to go read from your site. You may primarily intend it to be helpful, but it's also self-promotional -- at the expense of the forum. So, no wonder many of them take a dim view of that practice.

 

Read the forum's terms of use and community policies. If they don't allow links, then don't post links. If you can't / won't take the time to write out an in-depth answer, at least give a high-level view of what you want to say and let people know they can contact you directly if they'd like to explore in more detail.

 

If the rules don't say or aren't clear, contact a moderator or administrator and ask before you post a link back to your own site. And for those that do allow links, don't ever just post a link as though that constitutes a valid comment or answer. Always provide a summary or highlight of the key points your article covers. You need to provide some value in the forum for all the visitors/readers, with the link available for those who want to get more detail.

 

--Torka :oldfogey:



#4 Michael Martinez

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:01 AM

Share content in your social media accounts and on any forums or blogs you operate for yourself.  In other cases, if you join a discussion, provide the best answer you can within the discussion.

 

If the best answer is a link, it had better not be a link to your own content because if you could explain the answer once you should be able to explain it again.



#5 chrishirst

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:39 AM

 

If the best answer is a link, it had better not be a link to your own content

Why not?

 

One link is as good as any other, if it helps solve the other persons problems, who created that content is immaterial.


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#6 reseo

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:31 PM

I hear all your different thoughts and opinions - appreciate it. My experience is pretty much the same - also with sharing content within your social media accounts. As soon as you refer to an article you have been working on: YOU ARE A SPAMMER.

 

 

@torka:

It makes sense to read the community rules - but quite frankly - if I am part of a forum or community that shares the same interest and topic - why would you make community rules that if you share an article you have been working on and you link to your own page - it's going to be deleted or marked as spam ? Holly Molly - that sounds pretty intense. 

 

I mean.. that's maybe just my opinion - but if a community has such policies - it's missing the whole point why you actually started a forum or community. It is about communication, reaching out, having discussions. That doesn't mean, that you always have to have the same opinion. It will always be like that. Some people prefer Vanilla Ice Cream - others prefer Chocolate. So be it - that's not why I would start any fight at all. Different flavors, different taste, wonderful. 

 

You also mentioned that some users have been posting links to articles that have been well-intentioned but misinformed. Well, that's happening - but I wouldn't also see that as a problem. And I wouldn't need to set rules and policies about it. Why ? Again, I refer back to the ice-cream example. Vanilla vs. Chocolate - different flavors. Well, maybe.. sometimes you can tell that some opinions are truly wrong - but most of the time, especially in SEO I see that people are fighting about different opinions - different flavors. And in my opinion, that's nonsense. Who ever likes vanilla - ok - let him like vanilla without threatening him: You are sooo wrong with your vanilla flavor. lol; I hope it makes sense how I try to explain it. And also, who decides what is right or wrong ? This is very subjective, isn't it ?

 

I can see some valid points. That users might only share links after a while - what means, after you can really see the real intention from a user.

If someone is really into that topic, asks questions which are all related - and also tries to give his thoughts - why not allowing him referring to his own articles ? 

 

so yes, I agree with Chris, and let me ask the question again: Why not linking to your own article ? If it's authentic and helpful and serves a good purpose - what's wrong about it ? I think everyone should do it.

 

 

Again, I think what Chris mentioned earlier is simple a fact ... people are soooo hyper sensitive about links because they are sooo pissed about Sapmmers.

But again, somewhere has to be a finish line and if it's ending up in a situation where you can't even post any links anymore - that seems to become a Spamophobia situation - or call it what you want.

And then I have to ask what's the whole point having a community ?

 

If I am creating a community and my policy says: Posting Links not allowed. lol; doesn't make any sense ... at least, not for me !!!

 

I have to say, I just don't really understand in which direction it goes. And people are more concerned about Spam and make more comments about that then about an actual interesting topic. lol;

 

If people are sooo paranoia about Spammers and it looks like that's their main concern:
- Why are people then asking questions in forums or communities anyways ?

- Why are they actually participating in public forums ?

 

If you are so scared about spam, links, comments - wouldn't it make much more sense you simple do not participate ?

 

It reminds me with a recent scenario:

I went for sushi, very crowded place. It was very noisy and loud. Music was running, TV's have been turned on and the space was filled with about 100 people.

Right after I ordered my sushi, I got a phone call - I pick up the phone and start to talk (my 8 year old son called me by the way).

 

A guy right next to me, attacks me, yelling at me totally pissed: "Hey, turn off your damm cell phone. That's to much here. There is anyways already to much noise. You dickhead."

 

Ok.. I am usually a very polite person - but I couldn't resist and right after I ended my phone conversation - I gave the guy the following answer:

 

"Hey man, if it's to loud in here for you, then take your dead fish, leave, go home, turn on your candle light, lock your door and sh... the f.... up !"

 

I guess he did not expect that answer, since his head was running fully red and he didn't say anything anymore - he was speechless and left right after. 

 

But heck, what is it ? If people are so damm aggressive and pissed these days ?

And yes, that's my honest opinion. If you are going out to a crowded sushi bar, and it's loud there - hey what do you expect ?  Don't go out if you can't handle noise and if you don't want to see or hear other people !

Or rent a Sushi Bar for yourself ? lol; Whatever, if you can't handle social crowded public places - then just stay at home - or order sushi for delivery - period.

 

 

And that situation reminded me a bit with situations with online-communities - as soon as you participate in interesting discussions:

BOOM - they attack you for no reason. It almost feels like people take it as an opportunity or tool to shout out all their personal frustration. lol;

 

It almost feels like, it became a sport - like when hooligans go to a soccer game - and if their team is losing - they do have a reason to beat someone up !!! lol;

 

I can't explain it any further - and policies - I strongly believe you don't have to have any policies in particular for spammers.

Why ? It's crystal clear if someone spams - he will be history shortly - he set's his own death penalty - period.

 

So why all this pain and drama about it ?

 

 

I rather focus on all good comments and people who clearly show their interest - are authentic and mean what they talk and write about.

And I also like to get links from them - articles, ideas, thoughts, hints, tips and tricks.

 

If those people post and share in every single comment their personal links - excellent - why not ?

Over time you can anyways evaluate their value - their true meaning - and if you like them and it's useful for you - you'll continue reading.

And if not - so be it - then it's obviously not your favorite content creator - different flavor I guess.

 

Ok.. that being said... sorry for this monster comment here.. but as you can see... in my opinion, accusing every single person as a spammer when he is posting a link to his own articles - in my opinion, it just simple goes a bit far.

And heck yes, so that's my tendency, that's my vanilla flavor I like ! lol;  :hug: happy posting and commenting !!!


Edited by reseo, 22 August 2014 - 02:39 PM.


#7 Michael Martinez

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:19 PM

Why not?

 

One link is as good as any other, if it helps solve the other persons problems, who created that content is immaterial.

 

I explained why not in the sentence you cut in half with your quote.  Because if you can explain it once you can explain it again.  Most of the self-placed links I see in discussions are not accompanied by serious attempts to explain things.

 

Forums are places where people chit chat, disagree, agree, share links to things they have discovered, and if there is a marketplace section they can promote themselves.

 

It's better to advise marketers to stop thinking about where they can drop links and start thinking about how they can become part of the discussion in a relevant, useful way.



#8 chrishirst

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

 

It's better to advise marketers to stop thinking about where they can drop links and start thinking about how they can become part of the discussion in a relevant, useful way.

 

Definitely .... Brand YOURSELF as informed and informative first of all.



#9 Jill

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 06:13 PM

It depends on who the poster is that wants to link to their content. Are they a trusted member of the community who generally provides great information? 

 

Or are they someone who generally seems interested in how they might promote their websites or themselves?

 

I imagine that's how most communities decide what to let through and what not.



#10 reseo

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:54 PM

ok.. but there is even one more thing I didn't even mention.

 

Even if you place links to your own website - if you don't sell anything, if you don't offer anything - then the link is not to be considered as Spam. I mean, what else would the link be good for ??? lol;

 

 

You don't benefit from anything, it's the opposite: you get immediately [img]http://www.highrankings.com/forum/style_images/poo.gif[/img] from other users just for participating in an open discussion and trying to help. Very aggressive and useless in my opinion.

 

So this is a very valid point we all should consider and keep in mind before we crucify someone to be a Spammer.

 

I can see if someone is selling his software products, books, pills, classes, or what ever... but why is a link to your own blog in general considered as spam when you don't freaking sell anything ?

 

Not even a service that is offered !

Not even google AdSense !

 

And that results also to the fact, that I couldn't even care less about traffic.

It's that simple. No Product, No Service, No Sales, No Traffic needed - just a raw simple and non profit making blog - and that's what I do have - just to make it absolutely clear.

 

So some people might ask: Ok, but why the heck do you have then actually your own website ? If it's not about selling anything ? Right ?

 

In my case it's simple: Learning. Period.

 

For me it's a tool I use for an honest and simple discussion, share your thoughts and opinions, to learn, to make progress, to understand better how things are working. In what ever field you are into.

 

But why in heaven is everyone immediately branded as a Spammer ?

 

Again... please keep in mind.. we all could write articles, and post them on a page, or a blog nobody know's its you... and then ? This makes such a difference ? Then it's not a spam anymore because it's not m own blog ? Seriously ? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, not sure how everybody see's Self Promotion. So let's also talk about this a bit more. 

 

Self Promotion is in my opinion NOT Spam. What is wrong about it to show who you are, what you honestly think and if you publish your true identity ?

 

I think everyone who shows his true identity and face has the guts and the courage to stick to his guns  vs. many folks who just use nicknames and nobody knows who they are... are... just a bunch of cowards hiding behind a curtain of anonymous. Anyone can do that. 

 

So again, I differentiate self promotion from Spam - that's not the same at all, especially if you don't sell anything. And even if you link to your blog, and you speak and share what YOU think - even then if people say that's just for your personal self - promotion: AND ?

 

Can someone tell me what's wrong about that ?

What is bad about it, if you create your own personal blog, your name, just you as an individual person and you share your thoughts and opinions ?

 

What's wrong about it if you let other people know ?

Come on...  I can't see here any issues.

 

A simple crazy example:

People do ask questions in public forums or communities. Sooo.. they are obviously looking for help, right ?. Ok.

 

Someone gives them an answer, to help !

 

The person who asked the questions, attacks the person who gave the answer and tells him: Go to hell you freaking Spammer - not even reading the entire comment or the mentioned link.

 

Congratulations. Absolutely Wonderful.

 

Wow - so the person want's to help the guy who asked for help get's a pretty bad slap in his face.

 

Ok... not sure what's going on... but something is a bit strange with this behavior.... lol;



#11 chrishirst

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 08:57 AM

You are mixing up [email] spam with [search engine] spam.

 

Link dropping isn't about making sales of specific products, it's simply about gaining 'rankings' for  specific words or phrases



#12 Jill

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:15 AM

I think you'll find that it's only the way you think it is in online marketing forums. 

 

If you're in other groups that aren't into SEO, etc., links are generally welcome. In fact, I see people still getting away with "spamming" the groups even because the moderators have no clue.

 

In online marketing forums, most mods are jaded and assume the worst. But, we're usually correct, as well :)



#13 reseo

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:43 PM

well..yeah, I see what u mean with email spam and dropping links in forums. I personally can't see any big difference, except dropping links also helps for ranking. Or in some cases it might not, lol;

But of course in both cases it serves the same purpose. Drive traffic and sell ur junk.

Fact is that the Internet became the toughest and rudest place for capitalism. What ever u search for. The first pages u hit are for sure pages from marketers.

Sell, sell, sell.

It's almost like plague. But that's our so called "free" market. "Free" under the rules of capitalism. Who has enough money can swipe u away like an annoying moskito. Lol;

I just recently published a longer article about it where I made loud and clear my statement about it.

It also includes the topic about Pest-Blogging. Yes, not guest blogging, I mean Pest Blogging. An answer to one of Matt Cutts published article about the issues with guest blogging.

However, some Marketers are talking about making the internet a better place. But on the same page u can read about their tactics how they rank. Spinning articles and all other usual crap. Lol;

Marketers also hire people to just write any kind of articles - just for the sake to have some content. If right or wrong or 100times spinned... just all for a better internet... haha... hilarious.

If they do believe their own crap ? Lol;

It's just sad that you have to be extremely careful about published content. And my experience is that Marketers care only about their own conversion rate.

And yes, those facts lead easy into Spamophobia. It makes sense.

Again, I am a big fan of individual persons which do have the courage to stick to their guns and publish their honest opinions. Just being authentic with all your mistakes as well. I rather buy from someone like that vs. a big corporation which hired a bunch of marketers for hardcore sales.

And yes, coming back to the sensitivity of Spam - it makes sense that especially Marketing people react so sensitive, because they are annoyed by their own tactics. They know it's just about sales. Doesn't matter if it's ranking, backlinks, spinning articles, spamming your email, or whatever. It all leads to selling their junk. Lol;

But since I was in Sales for 12 years I am convinced you sell by serving and helping and not by using some cheesy sales pitches.

But I want to fight for individual which try to be authentic and try to do the right thing. And for such folks I speak and I want to make sure we can differentiate also in terms is Spam.

Again, I mentioned all my stuff earlier why I do not consider every link that goes back to your own blog as a Spam.

I hope it will find one day also some fruitful ground.

And even if my english sucks, I hope my perspective makes some sense.

Have a good weekend and enjoy what you do !

Edited by reseo, 24 August 2014 - 08:00 PM.


#14 chrishirst

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:55 AM

 

But since I was in Sales for 12 years I am convinced you sell by serving and helping and not by using some cheesy sales pitches.

 

Exactly, which is why I posted;

 

"You have to brand yourself as informed and informative first"

 

If you want others to definitely take note of what you offer them, you need that "trust factor". Blog comments and forum signatures are the Internet equivalent of "Fly posting", you might see their work but you do not really pay attention to it. They [and the email spammers] are "playing the 'numbers game", which for the uninitiated is the same kind of thing that T.V. advertisers do. Show your adverts to a million viewers and a 0.1% conversion rate means 'big money'.


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#15 Jill

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:25 AM

Meanwhile, every long post of yours here has said the same thing over and over. I think it's time to stick a fork in it cuz this baby is done. 


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