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How To Do It Right ?


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#1 reseo

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:50 PM

Hello !

 

I was reading many posts in this forum about Internal Linking. I also read Jills article about site architecture. I am still a bit confused about this topic.

 

 

@Cunfusion #1:

Pages vs. Posts - especially when using WordPress - I am still not sure:  

When should I use Pages, and when should I use Posts ?

 

 

@Confusion #2:

are the Keywords. Reading many different posts, I should create a Landing Page with my MAIN-KEYWORD I want to rank for.
Around that MAIN-KEYWORD I do have other Keywords I want to rank for as well. These Keywords are related to the MAIN-KEYWORD - they just do have a much smaller search volume.
However, these Keywords with a much smaller search volume - should they have their own Pages or Posts ? And should link to the Page with the MAIN-KEYWORD ?

 


@Confusion #3:

are the Backlinks. If the correct site architecture is setup - where should the backlinks point to ?

 

 

 

I apologize in advance if my questions are not clear enough. I am not as good in writing. I am better with pictures and graphics. 

Soo...  below you can find a Mind-Map to show how I would currently setup a site structure -  based on the cookies.com example.

(I didn't have any better idea, but thought cookies might be good and simple choice - and yes, I can't deny it - I love eating them...  but yeah... lol; my belly grows - outsch.)

 

 

This graphic might be totally wrong. However, my goal is to layout an absolute correct site structure. With your help - I am pretty sure to make it right !

 

 

Okay, so here we go.. please see the graphic below: Link to image http://www.mediafire...6l4cpue4hfg.jpg

 

2pzo486l4cpue4hfg.jpg

 

 

 

@GOAL:

My goal is to do it right. 


I hope the graphic will help everyone who is interested in Internal Site Structure - and yes, I am pretty sure I have to make many changes.
Okay, that's been said - now I am really curious about all your thoughts !
 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH for every single hint, comment, recommendation and little help !
I really appreciate it !

 

:hatwhite:

 

 

 

 

 

  

Attached Thumbnails

  • Site-Structure.jpg


#2 torka

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:37 AM

I use Wordpress as my content management system. I use posts when I have an article where the date might be important and that naturally fall into categories (press releases, newsletter article archive, etc.), because posts are automatically archived by category and arranged within category by date.

 

I use posts for web pages that aren't date-driven or that don't need to be presented as part of a group. For instance, the "about us" page, a page where people can download product brochures or user manuals, individual product support pages, etc.

 

As to keywords, now that Google has instituted the Hummingbird algorithm, it's become even more important for your writing to be natural and to include not just your target key phrase but also synonyms and related phrases. If you want to set up other pages also targeting these lower-traffic key phrases, that's fine -- as long as you have enough useful stuff to say to justify it. It has never been a good idea to just crank out content for the sake of targeting a particular key phrase, regardless of whether the content is useful or not... it's just that now it's even more of a bad idea than it was before.

 

As to your internal linking, it should be logical and designed to help your visitors find your most important pages. It can be a hierarchy as you illustrated there, or it might be more "web-like," with each page linking to a variety of others on related topics. For instance, it might be helpful from the mint cookie page to link to another page about chocolate-dipped cookies. (Since mint cookies dipped in chocolate are delicious. ;) ) Even if that page is part of another "branch" of the hierarchy.

 

Remember that ANY page to your site can be their entry page. No matter where they first land, they need to be able to instantly orient themselves -- figure out what kind of site they've landed on, and where they are in the site -- and figure out how to get to the next logical place. Your content and internal links will help them with that.

 

The thing is, try to think like a visitor to your site. What would they most want to do? What would YOU most like for them to do? How can you make it as easy as possible for them to find their way to that thing that you most want them to do? What logical path(s) would they likely follow to get there?

 

My :02:

 

--Torka :oldfogey:



#3 Michael Martinez

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:47 AM

@Cunfusion #1:
Pages vs. Posts - especially when using WordPress - I am still not sure:  
When should I use Pages, and when should I use Posts ?

It's a matter of personal choice but you should understand the technical differences between a PAGE and a POST. And those differences may vary slightly depending on the version of Wordpress you use. I will assume for the sake of discussion you're talking about the latest version (3.9.1).

A POST is denoted by these attributes:
  • Publishing or updating a post sends a "ping" signal (see below)
  • A post may use any one of 9 pre-determined formats (more can be added through customization)
  • A post is automatically listed at the top of the home (or designated "posts") page, and at the top of any associated archives (for author, category, month, tag, etc.)
  • A post is embedded in the RSS feed for any of the pages in the previous list item
A PAGE is denoted by these attributes:
  • Publishing or updating a page does NOT send a "ping" signal (see below)
  • A page may be assigned a "parent" page, and that relationship is used in default menu structures
  • A page may be assigned an arbitrary display order within its group of sibling pages
  • A page is NOT embedded in any RSS feeds
PINGING is a remote notification process by which a blog sends out a signal to any of several dozen "ping servers" that redistribute that notification to their subscribers. Search engines like Bing and Google monitor at least a few popular ping servers so that they can crawl newly published content.

@Confusion #2:
are the Keywords. Reading many different posts, I should create a Landing Page with my MAIN-KEYWORD I want to rank for.
Around that MAIN-KEYWORD I do have other Keywords I want to rank for as well. These Keywords are related to the MAIN-KEYWORD - they just do have a much smaller search volume.
However, these Keywords with a much smaller search volume - should they have their own Pages or Posts ? And should link to the Page with the MAIN-KEYWORD ?

It's better think in terms of creating a page (or post) around a TOPIC and using appropriate phrases to describe that topic simply and as uniquely as possible in order to convey what the visitor can expect to find.

The content on the page/post should be relevant to the topic and should not use superfluous language -- don't just sit there and add more words to the page thinking you are supposed to do that.
 

@Confusion #3:
are the Backlinks. If the correct site architecture is setup - where should the backlinks point to ?


The backlinks should point to relevant destinations on the site -- which could be any page or post. You don't want to get caught up in the game of building backlinks (although building a few is natural, most marketers take it too far). Instead you just want to earn good backlinks from other sites.

The kind of links it's okay to place yourself include those you post to social media. And to keep this short I'll leave this list at that one option.

#4 Jill

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:38 AM

IMO Pages describe your products and services and Posts are more like articles on various topics that your target audience might be interested in.

So the way you have it in your graphic, all of those should be Pages.

#5 reseo

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:33 AM

Thank you very much for all your input, appreciate it !
 
@torka:
you use posts where the date is important, like for press releases and news ... and you are also saying that you use posts for pages that are not date driven.
For instance.. the "About Us" Page you mentioned...  basically you are saying, where ever it is important to have a date that might effect an existing Page... with updates, etc. it's relevant to have a post, right ?
 
For example:
You have a product brochure for download on your About Us Page. You published that brochure 2 years ago. Since that time, you have product updates. The product brochure might stay the same, but you published posts with a date to indicate product changes, and make the audience aware of significant changes... and the date will help of course... right ? This is what you mean ?
 
 
Or another example could be a software update... you released once Software V1 - but during the development you created updates... Software V1.001 - the PAGE stays the same, but you published for each update a new post with a date.
 
Ok.. I just brought these examples to make sure I did understand you.
 
 
Why not having a SUPER PAGE ?
What do I mean with a SUPER PAGE... let me explain... 
I was always wondering what makes more sense..... I remember, 15 years ago.. the old school HTML websites had all content packed on ONE SINGLE PAGE. Today we can see such a structure usually in FAQ's. 
here is an example.. that's what I mean
 

site.xavier.edu/polt/typewriters/tw-faq.html#q1
 
as you can see.. all the content is in one single page.. and on top of the page you have a summary with on-page anchor-links only.
 
 
Soo.. what I mean with a SUPER PAGE...  wouldn't it make sense to have all on one page ?
COOKIES
* sugar free cookies
- mint
- vanilla
- cherry
* gluten free cookies
- etc.
- etc.
 
 
I was always wondering why we should make so many pages ?
Additional, wouldn't it be better having one super page considering the Hummingbird algorithm ?
Also for backlinks - I mean, I could focus on one Page that has all the good content, right ?
And not just that....  I would also find all synonyms and phrases on that page.
And for the Keywords, I would also put all other related Keywords into that page... I mean.. not just the MAIN-KEYWORD but also the ones that have lower search volume.
 
And if I do have important updates.. I would simple write posts to it... so I do have a date included that shows important updates or news.
 
Hmmm... wouldn't that make sense ?
And wouldn't that be actually a logical and natural way to setup a site architecture ?
 
 
 
@Michael:
Hmm.. yes.. I guess it makes totally sense what you wrote... saying.. it's better thinking in termins of creating a page around a TOPIC.... 
so wouldn't the super page be a good idea ?
 
 
 
I still do not understand why we can find so many pages on some sites... 
Is it because people just focus on the keyword itself ?
And they want to make sure the keyword is in the URL, the Title, etc ?
Do you think that's the main reason that it's better to create for every single keyword one individual page vs. having one super page ?
Or is it the amount of indexed pages that matters ?
 
Wow...  lot's of questions here... sorry for that.. I hope it's not to confusing.
 
@Jill:
 I will make more and more research and my goal is to edit the graphic .. or update the site architecture mind-map till it seems to be the right way to do. 
I see what you mean with the Pages and Posts. I will update that and keep you posted !
 
 
By the way..  just had to say it... great forum - great people !
 
Thank you so much for every little help !


Edited by Jill, 14 May 2014 - 05:41 PM.
Removed live link


#6 chrishirst

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:11 PM

There's a lot of  "over thinking" in this thread :)

 

Posts can be put in categories and the default order of "posts" for the category they are in is the "publish" date (BUT you can install a 'plugin' to re-order them should you need to).

 

'Pages' are 'static' in the display order of the navigation, you can set the order 'manually' in the dashboard, and they cannot be put in categories.

 

That's basically the only two things you need to know about the difference between a 'post' and a 'page'



#7 reseo

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:23 PM

Hello Hello and thank you very much for all your great comments - appreciate it !

 

I try to keep it simple .. I guess if I am writing less but focus more on the graphic - it's easier for everyone .... lol; sorry for my bad writing.... 

ok...  so here we go.

 

 

 

Graphic below shows the Site Architecture Jill mentioned in her article. I hope I got it right... 

 

wcldzwcjx8bxq10fg.jpg

 

 

 

Torka and Michael mentioned a very valid point. I should think about a simple structure - also very user friendly. And I should build articles and posts around a main topic - and the main topic should be one of my Landing Pages. 

 

This is where I thought.. why creating for every single keyword a page ?

Why not making sure I do have such keywords in a logical and natural way in the Landing Page itself ?

 

 

So here we go... the graphic below shows the site architecture even more simple. Just one Landing Page and all related posts. And no other pages - period.

 

 

wghywmi1ce1dwevfg.jpg

 

 

 

Allright.. now I let the graphics speak for itself.

 

 

Do you think the Landing Page with Posts only is totally nonsense ?

Advantages / Disadvantages ?

 

I would see the following advantages:

- I would only create backlinks to the Landing Page = clear focus

- The posts with a date would drive the page if I do have significant updates

- The Landing Page itself would appear very natural - not just focusing to at one target keyword... all related keywords and synonyms would be automatically part of the content

 

Disadvantages:

Would it be a disadvantage to have less pages indexed ?

Is it mainly a ranking disadvantage because all the other related keywords I want to rank for do not appear directly in the URL structure ?

 

 

 

I just tried to simplify - hmmm.....  what are your thoughts about it ?

 

 

Thank you so much,

have a good night and till later !



#8 chrishirst

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:02 AM

 

Why not making sure I do have such keywords in a logical and natural way in the Landing Page itself ?

 

Because when you TRY to make it 'natural' it will be anything but 'natural'

 

 

Do you think the Landing Page with Posts only is totally nonsense ?

YES!!!!

EVERY SINGLE URL (aka 'page' or 'post') is a 'landing page'

 

 

I would see the following advantages:

- I would only create backlinks to the Landing Page = clear focus

- The posts with a date would drive the page if I do have significant updates

- The Landing Page itself would appear very natural - not just focusing to at

 

No, no and no

 

And finally;

 

 

Loose the whole idea of "key" word 'focus', Write content for REAL people NOT computer algorithms, the 'key' word use will then BE 'natural'

 

What search engines REALLY WANT is that you pay ABSOLUTELY NO ATTENTION to them when you 'optimise' and promote your site URLs.



#9 Jill

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:28 AM

You don't have a choice where your backlinks go to. It's whatever people happen to link to. Generally, they'll link to whatever content they learn about that they think their target audience will find helpful. These days, more so than link, it's more likely they'd share on social media.



#10 Michael Martinez

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:14 PM

Your landing page should be built for a specific product or service that you offer, not for a specific keyword.

Whether you use "post" or "page" (as Wordpress defines it) doesn't really matter. There are all sorts of minor differences between the two that we haven't mentioned here. As Chris said, they all act as landing pages.

Just create the kind of Website you would be inclined to do business with. Don't worry about what's "right for SEO". Search engine optimization is relatively simple for most sites and you're not ready for the advanced stuff (that most sites don't need anyway).

Grow into the marketing process by starting out simple and experimenting with small, manageable changes.

#11 reseo

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:13 PM

Hello and thank you very much for all your comments.  Appreciate it.

 

 

@chris:
It makes all sense what you say and it helps me a lot.

 

However.. I think I was not specific enough to outline my issue. 

While the content side, and the user-friendly side makes all sense... meaning,  not writing content just for a specific keyword... rather writing content that really matters and user want to read...  all this is fine and does make all sense.

But additional, to the content and user-friendly topic... we do have another side or perspective. The technical side (site-architecture) - and that's what is still not clear for me.

Sorry for mixing that up - I apologize.

 

 

 

Let me try to explain with a practical example.

 

Let's say I write about a superstar.. let's pick Elvis - still love his music.

I would start with content I want to write about - my passion - and I would not really care about Keywords or related Keywords - period.

 

Sooo.. this is how I would start.

 

superstar.com/elvis/

I would start writing about the favorite songsstories about his lifehis cars, etc.

 

 

Now... seeing it from the technical side only.... the site architecture... I do have multiple options. 

Let me try to point them out. 

 

 

 

Option 1: ONE PAGE ONLY


I create one page and start writing about the favorite songs, his life and his cars.

However... I will add all the content to this one and only page.

 

My page would look like a book - at the top of the page I will make a summary or overview like this:

 

ALL ABOUT MY SUPERSTAR ELVIS:

1) Favorite songs
     - Love me tender
     - Jailhouse Rock
     - etc.
2) Stories about his life
    - Elvis shot a TV
    - etc.
3) Cars he liked
     - Cadillac
     - etc.

 

My website structure would be simple, like this:

superstar.com/elvis/

 

Like I mentioned earlier... I would put all the content to one page only and the navigation would be at the top of the page - links are only linking at that one page. Period. Done.

 

 

 

 

 

Option 2: MULTIPLE POSTS


This option has the exact same content like Option 1. The difference is that this option has multiple POSTS. So yes, it means I basically split the content and spread it out into into individual POSTS.

And every POST has his own URL.

 

 

I would create for each Topic a category:

 

Categories:

- Favorite Songs

- Stories about his Life

- Cars he liked to drive

 

 

my website structure would finally look like this:
superstar.com/elvis/
superstar.com/elvis/favorite-songs/
superstar.com/elvis/stories-about-his-life/
superstar.com/elvis/cars-he-liked-to-drive/

 

Since I do have categories.. I guess I can only add posts to it... right ?

However.. this would be (in my opinion) a very logical and natural way to build a site structure with multiple Posts !

 

And when ever I would write a new story about his life... I would create a new post and add it to the category: stories about his life

Peng. Done.

 

 

 

OPTION 3: MULTIPLE PAGES

 

This option is basically like OPTION 2. The only difference is that I do use PAGES instead of  Posts.

That means.. a CATEGORY will be overwritten by a PAGE. and that PAGE would become the PARENT PAGE. 

 

to be clear about it:

PARENT PAGE: superstar.com/elvis/

PAGE: superstar.com/elvis/favorite-songs/

PAGE: superstar.com/elvis/stories-about-his-life/

PAGE: superstar.com/elvis/cars-he-liked-to-drive/

 

A story about his life would be a Post - which would fall under the CATEGORY STORIES ABOUT HIS LIFE.
Again, in this option the Category is actually a PAGE. Confusing, I know.. but that's how WordPress would handle it, right ?

 

 

 

 

Ok... that's about it.. now I do have these 3 OPTIONS I could technically pick from.

And again... I want to underline this...  the content will not be different at all -  it will be exactly the same for each Option. There is absolutely NO difference in the content.

 

 

 

That's been said. Ok.

 

 

However. .  as Jill pointed out earlier ... and also in her article..  Site Architecture matters, right?

If site architecture matters, google must prefer either Option 1, Option 2 or Option 3, right ?

 

The final questions is:  

 

What does google prefer for ranking?

Option 1, Option 2, or Option 3 ?

 

 

 

Wow.. what a ride.. I hope this helps !

 

Thank you soooo much for all every little thought !!!

 

 

:hatwhite:

 


#12 chrishirst

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:37 PM

Site Architecture matters, right?

 

Wrong! The navigation architecture matters, search engines and users do not care how the files and folders are arranged on the server, physically or virtually. How you interlink the URLs does.

 

The 'home page' is not 'important', absolutely any URL on the site can function as a 'home' page and it is "last century thinking" to assume that all links must point to the 'home' page.



#13 Jill

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:37 PM

What does google prefer for ranking?

 

 

Google could care less.

Which would your users prefer?



#14 reseo

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:16 PM

Hmm... I think I am confusing then Site Architecture with Navigation Architecture.


@Jill:
you describe on your page Site Architecture like this:
Quote: "Site architecture is the way every page of your website is linked to every other page. It's the way people and search engines navigate your website, and it's equally important to both of them. You want both people and search engines to be able to easily find what they're looking for."

Hmm... let me think... I am actually not sure if it's the way how search engines and people navigate my website - I mean both.
Isn't there a difference ?

That's my perspective of view:


Site Architecture:
Backend... how pages are really linked to each other - the technical structure - tree/branches. The way the search engine reads it.


Navigation Architecture:
Frontend - What ever I choose to put into the Navigation. Whatever I choose that the user should see within the navigation.
The way the people see it.

Ok.. so not sure if we can see it this way... but that's something I have in mind.


@Chris:
Following your comment... you are basically saying the Site Architecture does not matter for ranking but the Navigation Architecture does, right ?
Sorry for asking again... but I need to make sure we are talking about the same here.


Why am I still confused about this topic ?

Chris, Jill... I do appreciate all your input and comments. But right now, I guess I am even more confused.... I can't wrap my head around this.
Your latest answer to site architecture was basically saying: Google could care less and Site Architecture does not matter for ranking.

Again.. I am referring to your article you have been posting with the title: "How Your Site Architecture and Website Navigation Affect SEO"
http://www.highranki...rchitecture-366

Quote:
"Believe it or not, a poor site architecture can completely kill off rankings, traffic and even conversions."


Hmm... well.. I am pretty sure I am still missing something here.
Or do I just mix up things ?
What is it, what I can not see ?

Thank you so much,
Bernhard

ps: continues digging, learning, and trying to understand

Edited by reseo, 17 May 2014 - 01:19 PM.


#15 reseo

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 07:43 PM

Hello Hello,

 

ok.. sorry for my delay.. just want to follow up on this topic.

 

First of all, I want to point out that I mixed up two different things at the beginning of this thread. 

 

Site Architecture vs. Navigation Structure

 

Soo.. what Chris already mentioned and I finally understood is the fact that navigation architecture matters, and how I interlink my URLS.

 

 

That's being said I was reading lot's of different opinions to that topic and I have to say, till yet... I was not able to get a clear picture.

For that reason, I created the following empty layout of a possible site architecture.

 

Download link to empty image template: http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a345/kuqm0wk4vyb7bb6fg.jpg 

 

kuqm0wk4vyb7bb6fg.jpg

 

 

as you can see, the internal linking is not setup yet. I left it empty, so we do have a template everyone could mark up his ideas.

 

sooo.. now here comes my first mark up for the internal linking - I figured it can get pretty complex.

However, I used some colors to better outline the link building.

 

 

Direct Download Link for Image below: http://www.mediafire...7e49i1xyqfg.jpg

 

811che7e49i1xyqfg.jpg

 

 

My goal is to drive maximum link juice from all internal pages to the following pages:

PAGE A

PAGE B

 

 

@color pink:

totally unsure about that 

 

@color red:

totally unsure about that

 

 

However, I just want to focus first on link Structure for PAGE A. 

If the link structure for PAGE A is setup, I'll use the same for PAGE B.

 

Last but not least, I also would need to figure out how I LINK between PAGE A and PAGE B !

 

 

However, first comes first..  what means, I want to figure out how I should setup the internal link-flow within PAGE A.

 

 

Okydoky... I hope the graphic helps and it's not to confusing.

However, when I built that graphic I figured that I do have actually lot's of possibilities....

 

Like mentioned before, till today, I couldn't find any LINK-GRAPH on the web, that laid out an entire link building network.

 

Soo.. I hope .. with your help ... to work this out !

And yes, also curious what everybody thinks about an ideal internal link building network.

 

 

Thank you so much for any little help,

hints & thoughts - appreciate it !


Edited by reseo, 27 May 2014 - 07:54 PM.





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