12 replies to this topic

[mscwebmaster]

They are a very small business - mom & pop. They sell event tour packages - the event is once a year.  So a conversion for them, with regard to Google & bing, is a request for information.

I have conversion code on their thank you page, so I can see conversions in the My Client Center, but I need to see how many of these requests are translating into sales of tour packages. They are very leery of sharing this information with me.

 

Now, I'm a web developer, and I just offer this SEM service to my small biz clients who don't have the money for an SEM professional (which I do not purport to be), with no promises on the success of their campaign, but it sure would be helpful if I could ultimately figure how how successful the campaign is, instead of going off how many requests for info they're getting. I would like to get better at this.

 

If they have 1000 requests for info, but don't sell any packages, then I guess the campaign isn't successful, right? (That's a rhetorical question.)

 

Do any of you have some advice for me?

 

 

 

 

[Jill]

Tell them you'll sign an NDA. 

[mscwebmaster]

Yeah, that's not gonna work. Not for this client.

For future SEO/SEM clients, I'm going to let them know they have to provide this information if I'm going to provide this service. Otherwise, I won't provide the service.


This company has been a web client since 2004, but there are just cetain things she won't talk to me about.

[Alan Perkins]

 I need to see how many of these requests are translating into sales of tour packages. They are very leery of sharing this information with me.

 

 

You either "need" to see this information or you don't.

 

Let's suppose you do. In that case your client is being obstructive and stopping you doing the best job you can for her.  You need to point this out.

 

Now let's suppose you don't. I think this is actually the more likely situation - your job is simply to deliver leads to an agreed Cost Per Lead target, not deliver sales to an agreed Cost Per Sale target. That's quite a normal position when there's a long pipeline between lead and sale. If you don't need this information in order to do your job, then you need to take an objective look at the situation and see how you're appearing to your client. You're demanding access to her business information for no good reason.  If this is the case, you need to take a step back, and just get on with delivering leads.

[chrishirst]

Do any of you have some advice for me?

 

 Yep;

 

 

If they have 1000 requests for info, but don't sell any packages,

 

Tell them to hire some better sales staff.

[mscwebmaster]

Alrighy then.

 

First of all, my job is to help them increase sales with their PPC, and I can't help them increase sales if they are not willing to let me know how much they're selling.

 

Second of all, like I said, this is a very small business - mom and pop. They ARE their sales staff.

 

Thank you for your replies.

[Alan Perkins]

Your posts are very confusing. You have said both "a conversion for them, with regard to Google & bing, is a request for information" and "my job is to help them increase sales with their PPC".  You really need to get your head around the difference.

 

Is your performance judged on

1. the number of leads YOU deliver or
2. the number of sales THEY make?

Have they told you they are unhappy with your performance?  If not, do you think they are unhappy?

[mscwebmaster]

I want them to think beyond a request for info to a request for info that results in a sale. Otherwise, how can they determine what a click and filling out the request-for-info is really costing them? Is the sales funnel I've been trying to craft resulting in more requests for info resulting in sales, or just in requests for info that don't translate into sales? How are they doing this year, when I've put a more concerted effort into their PPC and actual conversion tracking, compared to last year or the last 8 years, when I wasn't?

 

I just got this from them: "Please understand that I am a very, very private person and would rather not say or remark about my sales.  We're not interested in actual count, but filling motorcoaches.  That's where the profit is."

 

But isn't actual count filling motorcoaches? How many motorcoaches do they want to fill?

They're doing what they've been doing for the last 25 years. They've complained over the last few years about how much harder it is to fill their tour buses for their once-a-year event, how much more competition they have from travel companies, and how much more they need to spend on their PPC vs even 3 years ago (although with my work, I've doubled the CTR to nearly 3%, and reduced their PPC expenses) (they think Google and Bing are out to rob them). They were even going to retire the business at the very beginning of this year, but then they wanted to continue the business. The pop is 80 years old, the mom is 75. They're nice people. I'm trying to help them out. And so much of this is way over their heads.

I recommended redesigning their site, because I built it in 2004, and it looks terribly dated and unprofessional, while they are competing with larger travel agencies who have better and more contemporary websites. Goes to credibility. They don't want me to touch the text for split testing, because they want to print out their home page as a flyer. Yes, a flyer.

 

Yet they don't want to get involved in social marketing at all (which their business would be a perfect fit for). They don't want to do newsletters or blogging. They go back and forth on display ads or not.

I'd like to be able to have enough information to tell them that yes, they are doing better this year. If they are not, then I need to look at if there's anything I can do within the constraints I have to help them do better. But if I don't know how many tour packages they're selling vs. the number of clicks, vs. the number for requests for info, then all this is a Hail Mary pass.

I'm their web person. I've been in graphic design and marketing for over 40 years. I've been doing the web stuff/SEO, plus a smidge of SEM for 9 years. Generally, if clients need major SEM, my statement to them is, "Here are some phone numbers of ethical marketers. It's going to cost at least a few thousand dollars to start."

I tried to keep my questions and responses biref, and got misunderstood. I hope this clarifies. I guess, based on this email I just got from them, that I'm just going to leave it alone and not expend any more effort. They're happy, so I will leave it at that. Nothing more I can do.

Thank you all for your help.

[qwerty]

If they refuse to share sales data with you, then you can't track sales data. Unless they change their minds, you're out of luck. You're providing a service to them, and it's completely up to them how far that service can go.

 

So if the only KPI you can track is requests for information, do what you can with that. Concentrate on how you can convince them to let you make changes that will increase the number of requests. Refusing to change the home page because they want to be able to print it out is kind of silly. Give them a pdf file they can print out and put it someplace other than the home page, so you can make changes to the home page and the rest of the site that will lead to more of the conversions you're able to track.

 

And if, at some point in the future, you've updated the site, increased the number of requests, and they come to you complaining that they're getting more traffic and more requests for information, but sales aren't up, you can remind them that it's impossible for you to work on improving a KPI for which you don't have access to the basic data.

Edited by qwerty, 09 June 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[mscwebmaster]

qwerty, that was a wonderful reply. Thank you. I've been trying since 2004 to not have them count on printing out the home page for a flyer, and I've had no luck.

This is their last year, so they say, so I will concentrate on other clients who are more likely to give me more information.

[chrishirst]

I think the appropriate adage is:

 

"You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

 

 

Bloody clients!  You can't do anything with them and shooting them is frowned upon!

[mscwebmaster]

One of my dad's favortie adages, chrishirst. I smiled.

[chrishirst]

It must be the time of year or someting.

 

I've got one for a a WordPress theme conversion, who would prefer to distort images by making a 350x600 or 2460x800 image  fit into a 210x200 container rather than have a fixed size frame and let WordPress  resize the images in their correct aspect ratio, as per deviantart.com.

 

The argument against was "Well they're photo's"!

 

 

Anyone want to borrow a large bore shotgun? It will have only been used once!

 

...

 

 

 

... This week!!!!!!!

Edited by chrishirst, 10 June 2013 - 12:15 PM.