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60 replies to this topic

#16 Gary Bagshawe

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:45 AM

Hiya all, Whlst we are on the topic ,Was wondering if anybody can shed some light on the following.

If I pay ineedhits or other type of paid inclusion service for a listing in the inktomi database does it just list the pages that I have paid for or will the relevant search engines follow the robots command to follow the links and index the other pages?

#17 MakeMeTop

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:07 AM

Paid inclusion is only for the pages you have paid for. The PFI spiders do not follow any links!

Remember there are 2 sets of spiders on PFI engines - the paid inclusion spiders and standard spiders. The first do just that - spider the pages you paid for. The latter work as normal spiders.

On the PFI renewal issue - I do not normally renew PFI on sites which remain static but do on URLs that are subject to frequent change. I have never had any problems with URLs falling out of PFI engines due to this for more than a couple of weeks.

#18 Gary Bagshawe

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:13 AM

So will the standard spiders eventually hit the other pages or not?

#19 MakeMeTop

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 04:28 AM

Spiders get pages through following links. If you have links from other web sites to your web site and the spiders can follow links to your other pages - yes - the standard spiders will find the links.

PFI has absolutely nothing to do with helping standard spiders following links off pages which are only submitted through PFI.

For example, if I have a site with a wonderful link structure and no other quality web sites link to it - it will not get crawled by standard spiders. If I put 2 pages into PFI these 2 pages will get crawled - but that is all - ever! If I get a DMOZ or Yahoo link to the site, then all pages will get crawled (in time) by standard spiders.

#20 Jill

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 08:25 AM

On the PFI renewal issue - I do not normally renew PFI on sites which remain static but do on URLs that are subject to frequent change. I have never had any problems with URLs falling out of PFI engines due to this for more than a couple of weeks.


Thanks, Barry. That's good to know and exactly what I was wondering. :lol:

Jill

#21 LauraB

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 02:29 PM

This is a great conversation. I have not seen bCentral mentioned. When I first began working on submitting sites (my boss handed me a new site and said "please submit this to the search engines) I had NO idea where to start - let alone how to do our client justice.

I read everything I could lay my hands on. Conflicting information, reams of articles, and several years passed. In the midst of that I discovered bCentral. Great tool for the novice. Reminds you that keywords need to be included in the text, alt tags and meta tags. Provides reports - not always accurate as they may be - on how the site is doing for that keyword phrase and more. (Unfortunately have had a some trouble with it - if I want to discontinue renewing one URL they want to discontinue all URLs, but that is another topic all together which I won't go into)

I agree with Jill, if a site is already indexed PFI should not be needed. But, it is a great way to get a new site listed. And it is my understanding that bCentral submits to Inktomi.

As a side note I love the name Inktomi - it is the Lakota word for spider. Very clever...

#22 Jill

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 02:43 PM

Welcome, LauraB! :)

I'm not sure what service you're using from BCentral, however, I can not in good conscience recommend that people use it, from what I understand about it.

It is my understanding that they do automated search engine submissions, and do them on a regularly scheduled basis.

Neither is necessary, and both could be more harmful to your site than helpful.

If I'm misunderstanding what service BCentral offers that you might be using, then feel free to better explain what it is you get from them.

It's absolutely unnecessary to submit to the spidering search engines. (Not counting PFI as discussed in this thread.)

Jill

#23 MakeMeTop

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 02:50 PM

bCentral does submit to INK (which is Good). It also does do automated submissions elsewhere (which is not Good - IMHO).

I would strongly recommend PFI providers who concentrate on that area alone or as a core part of their business - I have tried most and have had the best support from Positiontech, Ineedhits and Trellian. This is not to say that others have bad support - just that I (personally) have found these to be the best when I encountered problems. I do have more profound technical questions than most :)

#24 LauraB

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 03:58 PM

Jill says:

"I'm not sure what service you're using from BCentral, however, I can not in good conscience recommend that people use it, from what I understand about it."

I agree the mass submission submission facet is not a good thing. And I would not recommend using that portion of the program. But, for a novice the page building section was great.

I also love WordTracker but know where to stop using that tool.

#25 Denyse

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:51 PM

Could somewone please clarify this: :manybounce:

Did I understand that if I use paid inclusion with, for instance Yahoo, a special spider will visit and list the page.
But if the page is listed does that not create links wich will attract standard spiders from other search engines??? ie Google

Denyse

#26 Scottie

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 10:21 PM

Denyse-

Only certain engines have paid inclusion- Yahoo is a directory that you pay to be listed with. A Yahoo link does count toward link popularity.

Spidering engines like Inktomi (MSN) and Teoma (Ask Jeeves) have a separate paid inclusion program where they will send their bots to index your page on a regular basis, making it easy to see when optimization changes are working. They also have regular spiders that simply crawl the web following links so if your site is well linked, they are likely to find your site eventually.

Paying for inclusion simply assures that the page gets in the index quickly and gets spidered regularly.

Being in a spidering engine's index doesn't help you with link popularity in any other spidering engine.

Hope that's not too confusing :manybounce:

#27 patrickh

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 03:31 PM

If the site is already crawlable, you have done a reasonable job of optimisation and you have plenty of time - building appropriate links which can produce both qualified traffic and "reputation" may be all the PFI that is needed. Gimpsy, JoeAnt, Yahoo and Business.com all sound to be areas where I may pay to be included.


Very well said :cheers:

However, that is the situation where I think it is especially important to have a handfull of your key pages in PI, so you can do your tweaking and make sure you are on the right path as far as your optimization is going. I would never go as far as to PI all the pages on a site (unless it is a terribly small site), because I think that free inclusion is generally enough for 95% of the pages on a site... it always helps to have those important ones on there though, IMO.

#28 awall19

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 02:07 AM

I am sure I have little work history or knowledge compared to many of the other posters to this topic. I do think that the psychological impact of nearly instant decent rankings through Inktomi justifies its price for a home page though.

Everything is based on potential return though, and other than a rotating current hot products page and maybe the home page, PFI is just spending money for nothing in my eyes.

#29 Greystar

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 08:43 AM

Barry and Scottiecl have the right Idea - PI is a parallel chanel to good natural spidering IMO.

For competitive terms, where you now you are going to spend some time tweaking pages, Ink, FAST, AV and Teoma are a must. Knowing that 2 days later you can see the results of your work is a godsend, especially when working on a new area that you aren't too familiar with, or when you are just starting out.

As for the cost, $39 can be the value of a single visitor, and the value (to a client) of him/her seeing their homepage listed the week after you start work on their site can't be measured...

Yahoo/Lycos/Looksmart Directories are a sort of PI, but are a real different kettle of fish when submitting, as the titles and descriptions are all that seems to matter, rather than the code on your pages...

Perhaps a seperate forum on directories ???
Edit (just noticed you have one... Doh!)

Love the forums BTW

#30 websage

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:50 AM

I have a question related to this discussion.

A client of mine used Position Tech to get inclusion into Inktomi. The first year just expired. I am debating to extend the contract or not? The reason I am interested in Inktomi is MSN -- I do not want to pay for LookSmart. Or should I?

Thanks,

Mitko




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