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Changing To A New "better Organic Results" Domain Name - Uniqu


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18 replies to this topic

#1 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

Hi all,

This board is a great find. Great info but I dont see anything posted like the question(s) I have. So here goes.... :)


I am going to use this example below (I do not own these domain names)



(----- start scenario ----- )

Lets say the keyword phrase - gift wrapping paper - gets 3,300 - 500 - 650 (broad - exact - phrase) organic results monthly and the your company domain is giftwrappingpaper.com.

NOW, you get the domain name giftwrapping.com and that keyword phrase - gift wrapping - gets 33,000 - 2500 - 2650 (broad - exact - phrase) organic results monthly.

(----- end scenario ----- )




(----- my understanding ----- )

From what I understand, the 301 redirect will carry some page rank juice over to NEW domain. BUT the NEW domain is better and I would want it to start new and gets its BETTER page rank juice.

(----- my understanding ----- )




(----- how I am thinking to proceed ----- )

1. So, I was thinking of a splash page on old domain stating that we have new domain and leave a link there for them to click over. Basically I dont want to pass any old domain PR juice. Is that best approach?

2. Also, ALL of the pages on the old domain. Should I just point all pages to new website pages of same name OR should I just point all pages of old domain to the old domain homepage that then will be clickable to NEW domain?

(----- how I am thinking to proceed ----- )


I appreciate any thoughts/insight/direction.
Thanks in advance,

VB

#2 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:02 AM

First, Google just recently changed the weighting they give exact match domains, so keep that in mind.

That said, if you feel that the new domain is better (for your users) than the old one, then 301-redirect the entire old site/domain to the new one. Do not keep the home page of the old site.

Also, be sure to change the address via your Google Webmaster Tools account.

#3 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

First, Google just recently changed the weighting they give exact match domains, so keep that in mind.

That said, if you feel that the new domain is better (for your users) than the old one, then 301-redirect the entire old site/domain to the new one. Do not keep the home page of the old site.

Also, be sure to change the address via your Google Webmaster Tools account.



Thank you so much for your input.

What about getting the PR juice of the old site, whereas the new site should get better PR juice? or is that just dead now?

Is there a penalty for leaving a splash page informing users/viewers of this news? Just curious...

#4 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

You get the PR passed from the old to the new when you redirect it via a 301. Otherwise you won't get it.

There's no penalty for leaving it, but you'll lose all the PR that it has acquired.

#5 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

Jill,

Thanks again,

I am not looking to get the PR juice from old domain(less organic value) I am looking to have NEW domain (more organic valule) to build up THAT PR Juice. Make sense or am I totally off base here?


(basically, I will sacrifice old (less PR juice) for the NEW page juice that will be given to BETTER domain name.)

You get the PR passed from the old to the new when you redirect it via a 301. Otherwise you won't get it.

There's no penalty for leaving it, but you'll lose all the PR that it has acquired.



#6 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:18 PM

I am not looking to get the PR juice from old domain(less organic value) I am looking to have NEW domain (more organic valule) to build up THAT PR Juice. Make sense or am I totally off base here?


Nope. Makes no sense to me whatsoever, sorry.

PR (PageRank) is about links pointing to a site. So your old will always have more than your new, at least at first. Why would you not want to transfer the old links pointing to your old domain, to your new domain?

#7 qwerty

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

I think you may be mistaken about what PR and the "juice" that can pass from it are. PR isn't about relevance to a query, and it's not directly about some concept of how good a site is. It's a calculation of the value of links pointing to a page, based on how many there are, the PR of the pages linking to yours, and the number of other links that are on those pages that link to yours.

And that's all it is. It's part of Google's calculation of the strength of your page, but it's far from being everything.

So the PR on your old site is just about the links pointing to it. If you set up the 301 redirects as Jill is recommending, then the PR your old site got from its backlinks will (mostly) be transferred to the new site's pages. If you don't set up the 301s, you won't be able to transfer the PR. If all you do is set up a link from the old site's home page to the new site's home page, then all you'll get out of it is a link, which will send some PR to the new site, but not anywhere close to the amount the old site was receiving.

Changing your domain name doesn't give you more PR, no matter how good that domain name might be. Domain names have nothing to do with PR.

Edited by qwerty, 05 October 2012 - 01:32 PM.
typos galore


#8 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

I am sorry. I am just trying to understand.

So the organic results mean nothing here?

1.) gift wrapping paper - gets 3,300 - 500 - 650 (broad - exact - phrase) domain: giftwrappingpaper.com

2.) gift wrapping - gets 33,000 - 2500 - 2650 (broad - exact - phrase) domain: giftwrapping.com

Technically, NEW domain(#2) would not eventually rank higher/better PR juice do to those stats?

#9 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:32 PM

No, the domain makes no difference. What makes you think the domain will affect where you rank in the search results?

Even if that were true, it has nothing to do with PR passing.

(Also ranking higher is not the same thing as PR. I think you have your terms mixed up.)

#10 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:09 PM

No, the domain makes no difference. What makes you think the domain will affect where you rank in the search results?

Even if that were true, it has nothing to do with PR passing.

(Also ranking higher is not the same thing as PR. I think you have your terms mixed up.)



The domain does make a difference for that keyword phrase (gift wrapping) over gift wrapping paper . correct?


If the search term - gift wrapping - now brings up the site that was (formerly giftwrappingpaper.com) NOW giftwrapping.com, then they should get more organic results. That company should get more traffic/business, correct?


Understood, you are correct on the last part. :)

#11 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:44 PM

The domain does make a difference for that keyword phrase (gift wrapping) over gift wrapping paper . correct?


Maybe. Maybe not. It's surely not a given.

You may want to know that Google has recently decided to go after exact matching domains: http://searchenginel...-to-come-135446

#12 qwerty

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:54 PM

The page that's going to come up first for the query [gift wrapping] is the one that Google's algo determines to be the best resource for information about gift wrapping. Don't make the mistake of thinking that a domain name of giftwrapping.com is going to make a site more relevant than a domain name of giftwrappingpaper.com, especially if giftwrappingpaper.com has been around a while, built some natural backlinks, some of which may be anchored by "gift wrapping paper" or "gift wrapping," etc.

There are a lot of factors involved in this. By changing the domain name, you may get some boost from matching the query, but keep in mind that 1) the other domain name also included the query, 2) the other domain name consisted of another, longer query that this new one doesn't, so even if the new domain is better targeted to the more popular, you're dropping the targeting for the other query, and 3) as Jill has pointed out two or three times, exact match domains are something that Google is actively working against.

So, with all that in mind, let's say you're gaining some little bit by matching that one query with your domain name. Balance that against the loss in trust the old site built up over time, whatever marketing you'd done to promote it both online and offline, the small loss in PageRank from redirecting (or the complete loss of PR from not redirecting) and the value of changing the domain name is probably a lot lower than you initially thought.

#13 vabenzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

Thank you.

Just so you know. This is a real site. The content is new and real(site has recently been redone). It is a real company.

I do know that google is working to neutralize EMD's but these are great, highly sought after keyword search term domain names with LEGIT, [url=http://searchengineland.com/070531-115312.php]Real[i][/i] Content[/url]. It is a very competitive niche.

I believe google is working to weed out the scammer sites and the junk sites. This is legit. I dont think its a blanket deal.



My goal is to have giftwrapping.com go to the clients business. Being that the search term is search much more than - gift wrapping paper. I am assuming it should rank higher, actually first in google. I see examples of this from friends who have domain names with real sites. You type in the two words and there it is FIRST in Google search.


I am definitely hearing what you guys are saying. I appreciate it. I just want to exhaust all avenues and questions and get more and more opinion and explanation. It can only help me :)



One last thing, you wrote - " the complete loss of PR from not redirecting) and the value of changing the domain name is probably a lot lower than you initially thought."


So if three word phrase got lets say 1,000 broad | 200 exact | 150 phrase organic searches

THEN the two word phrase gets 100,000 broad | 20,000 exact | 15,000 phrase

It will ONLY, MAYBE benefit in some small way, correct? The numbers would indicate otherwise, but I am asking (not to be a pest) just to know that it doesnt work that way FOR SURE??


Thanks again everyone

#14 Jill

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:22 PM

If you don't redirect, you'll be starting from scratch. It would just be silly when it's so easy to redirect.

#15 qwerty

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

So if three word phrase got lets say 1,000 broad | 200 exact | 150 phrase organic searches

THEN the two word phrase gets 100,000 broad | 20,000 exact | 15,000 phrase

It will ONLY, MAYBE benefit in some small way, correct? The numbers would indicate otherwise, but I am asking (not to be a pest) just to know that it doesnt work that way FOR SURE??


Let's leave domain names out of this answer so we don't have to argue about whether or how much they're a factor. Instead, let's talk about two sites, one of which currently ranks at #1 for [gift wrapping] and the other at #1 for [gift wrapping paper]. I'm betting that the site that's #1 for gift wrapping does pretty well for gift wrapping paper and the site that's #1 for gift wrapping paper does pretty well for gift wrapping.

And no matter how much more volume one phrase has than than the other, I think the important thing to keep in mind is that there are TONS of different queries for which both of these sites ought to be getting traffic and converting on, such as [buy gift wrapping paper], [cheap gift wrapping paper], [wrapping gifts], [how do i gift wrap a basketball], [best tape for wrapping gifts], etc. (Note that I didn't do any research to come up with that list, and it shouldn't be assumed that any of these are "money" terms).

The point is that you should never build a business or a site to target one phrase. That's not a good strategy for success. Build a brand, provide useful content and good service, and people will find you, buy from you, become regular customers, and recommend you to their friends. That's what matters, not your domain name.
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