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Bizarrre Ranking Problem


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17 replies to this topic

#1 gmr324

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:57 PM

Hi,

So, I have 3 Baby account hosting plans with Hostgator with each plan having its own dedicated IP. Many of the add-on and primary domains had achieved stable
Google page 1 rankings for months. I'm very diligent about posting unique content, avoiding keyword stuffing and not inter-linking these sites and conducting niche-related backlink campaigns for unique backlink footprints. However, within each HostGator Baby Plan, the primary and add-on domains share a dedicated IP.

Yesterday, ALL of my rankings completely disappeared across all these domains. I cannot find them anywhere in the first 10 pages of search results.

Here's the even more bizarre part:
This happened across all 3 of my HostGator accounts. The sites are still up when I visit them and even indexed as evidenced by a site: Google search. So, when I called HostGator they checked the server logs and found no errors, viruses or signs of any hacking. In fact, the Google bot hasn't visited my primary domains for over a month.

I use GetClicky instead of Google Webmaster tools or Analytics to keep most of my site stats more private. HostGator's only response was for me to contact Google at this point which I'm trying to avoid to stay off their radar.

1) What other questions should I be asking to HostGator support?

2) Does anyone have any suggestions or advice for how I should proceed?

3) Should I be considering using HostGator's SEO Hosting Plan to separate each add-om domain onto its own C-Class IP? That would add about $150 to my monthly hosting bill

4) What effect does changing a website's IP have on it's ranking?

Any Advice Appreciated on how to diagnose this

#2 chrishirst

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:07 PM

Yesterday, ALL of my rankings completely disappeared across all these domains. I cannot find them anywhere in the first 10 pages of search results.

Not a particularly unusual occurence by any stretch of the imagination.


and conducting niche-related backlink campaigns for unique backlink footprints. However, within each HostGator Baby Plan, the primary and add-on domains share a dedicated IP.

So you think you can fool Google with silly "link building tricks then?


3) Should I be considering using HostGator's SEO Hosting Plan to separate each add-om domain onto its own C-Class IP?

IP classing hasn't existed in Internet routing since 1993

What effect does changing a website's IP have on it's ranking?

Absolutely none whatsoever provided you allow five days with the site URLs live on BOTH IPs to allow DNS to propogate fully.

#3 slinky

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

Yesterday, ALL of my rankings completely disappeared across all these domains. I cannot find them anywhere in the first 10 pages of search results.

Hard to say what could have happened without seeing your sites.I've got some sites that have been up for 10 years. They have a lot of unique content. Some of them have disappeared entirely in searches where they used to rank on page 1 and lots of garbage is present. No one has been able to describe why this has happened. Change in the Google algorithm could be the case and they are constantly playing with it, sometimes good and sometimes not so good results. One very important thing to check - make sure you aren't logged into Google or Google+ when you do your searches. Again, Hard to say what could have happened without seeing your sites.

3) Should I be considering using HostGator's SEO Hosting Plan to separate each add-om domain onto its own C-Class IP? That would add about $150 to my monthly hosting bill
4) What effect does changing a website's IP have on it's ranking?

The impact of unique C-Class IP use is unknown. Google says it doesn't matter but of course they would say that. But in your case, none of this matters because all of these tricks only can work with domains that are fresh and haven't been spidered before by Google as yours have been for a while. I don't believe any of the above will make a difference. If you spend money on someone creating backlinks you will probably see some effect but it could be very marginal too.

#4 torka

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

The impact of unique C-Class IP use is unknown. Google says it doesn't matter but of course they would say that.

Well of course Google says so. Because, you know, they understand how that Interwebs thingie works. As Chris says: there hasn't been any such thing as a "unique C-Class IP" since 1993.

Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) is a method for allocating IP addresses and routing Internet Protocol packets. The Internet Engineering Task Force introduced CIDR in 1993 to replace the previous addressing architecture of classful network design in the Internet.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia....-Domain_Routing

In other words, even if we assume it once did work (which isn't necessarily a given) the ol' "Unique Class-C IP Address Trick" could not possibly have worked for any sites, new or old, for nearly 20 years. When it comes to SEO, there is an inordinate amount of outdated "zombie" information wandering around. :mf_frankie: This particular bit of "historical fiction" is long past its expiration date. :oldfogey:

Back to gmr324: as to the issues with your websites, it looks to me as though you're concentrating on potential technical issues (IP addresses, "unique backlink footprints," server log errors, etc.). But Google's focus lately has been on the quality of the site itself. May I suggest it might be more useful for you to stop worrying about technical issues (since there don't seem to be any obvious of those) and instead take a closer look at the content of the sites and the quality of those "unique backlink profiles." :eek:

You say you're avoiding "keyword stuffing," but high quality content takes a lot more than just an absence of excessive repetition. Is all your content unique, original and useful? :type:

And what exactly do you mean by "niche related backlink campaigns"? If that means reaching out to high-quality sites within your industry and soliciting editorial links based on the usefulness and quality of your content, that's great. But if it means stuff like dropping links all over the comment stream of "niche" blogs or submitting crappy "guest articles" to sites that exist strictly for the purpose of posting crappy guest articles from people looking for backlinks, well... :dntknw:

If those were my sites, I'd be spending a lot more time looking at the quality and quantity of content and the quality of the backlinks and less time worrying about obscure (and, most likely, irrelevant) technical issues.

My :02:

--Torka :propeller:

#5 slinky

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

Well of course Google says so. Because, you know, they understand how that Interwebs thingie works. As Chris says: there hasn't been any such thing as a "unique C-Class IP" since 1993.

He's obviously talking about C Class IP hosting. Apparently Google thinks that there are plenty of relevant search results for something that you insist hasn't existed for 20 years. Regarding what Google says, they are like every other big corporation. Ask the people at Apple. What they said was accurate because Steve Jobs obviously knows best. :)

In other words, even if we assume it once did work (which isn't necessarily a given) the ol' "Unique Class-C IP Address Trick" could not possibly have worked for any sites, new or old, for nearly 20 years. When it comes to SEO, there is an inordinate amount of outdated "zombie" information wandering around. :mf_frankie: This particular bit of "historical fiction" is long past its expiration date. :oldfogey:


I've heard the justification behind it. If what your saying was true and had such absolute certainty, there wouldn't be so many webhosts selling what he's referring to and a demand to purchase those accounts. Other than a handful of people, nobody knows the actual extent to which Google can successfully conclude that a connection exists between different IP addresses.

I've always taken the approach that there are some best practices with SEO that we can do, some that seem to work with repeat success and another part that will remain as educated speculating.

#6 chrishirst

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:26 AM

And a search of Google where a "Hosting companies" playing on the fears of potential customers proves what exactly???


There are PLENTY of people who try to pull the same kind of trick with customers.




Just because some will exploit the fears of other does NOT make it a fact.

#7 torka

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:57 AM

A man in New York City never leaves his house without carrying a large stuffed elephant. One day, one of his friends finally asks, "Why do you carry that elephant every where you go?"

"It scares away the lions," the man replies.

"But, but, but... there are no lions in New York," the friend exclaims.

"Well, then, it must be working!"

---------------------------------------
A client brags that each of his sites is hosted on a different "Class-C IP address." His SEO asks why that would make a difference.

"Because the hosting company that's charging me extra for the different IP addresses says that having two sites on the same Class-C IP could lead to search engine penalties," the client replies.

"That's silly! You can't possibly be penalized for being on the same 'Class-C IP address' because there's no such thing. Since 1993 the Internet has used classless IP," exclaims the SEO.

"Well, then, that unique Class-C IP address hosting I have must be working."

:)

--Torka :propeller:

#8 Jill

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

While that's a good video from Matt regarding the fact that registering your domain for multiple years doesn't have an effect on rankings, it doesn't address the Class-C IP thing.

But after reading that Wikipedia article referenced by Torka, the original question of:

Should I be considering using HostGator's SEO Hosting Plan to separate each add-om domain onto its own C-Class IP? That would add about $150 to my monthly hosting bill


Shows you that HostGator (if actually calling it the C-Class IP) is pretty sleazy. A hosting company should certainly be familiar with the fact that we use classless interdomain routing.

Perhaps they were just offering different IPs that were in very different ranges, so they didn't appear to be related in any way?

Edited by Jill, 24 October 2012 - 10:33 AM.
added more info after reading the wiki page

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#9 chrishirst

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:45 AM

it doesn't address the Class-C IP thing.

Very true. However it was merely to illustrate that some companies are perfectly willing to tell lies or spread fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) in order to sell something to customers that they do not need, do not want and will be of zero benefit whilst lightening their bank account in favour of the vendors revenue.

#10 slinky

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

seohosting.com/blog/seo-help/class-c-ip-addresses/

That's what the OP is talking about. I guess this information either was put up online before 1993 or maybe you should be focusing on substance over form. Whether or not this imaginary strategy works is a whole different question. My answer is that even assuming it works, the OP still couldn't take advantage of the strategy.


And a search of Google where a "Hosting companies" playing on the fears of potential customers proves what exactly??? Just because some will exploit the fears of other does NOT make it a fact.

If everything Matt Cutts said was true, 4 of my competitors would have been delisted years ago. Of course he'll say that Google is onto every trick in the book so don't try it. Whatever. There is only one question here - did we know what the OP was referring to? I do. So do many other SEO experts. Whether it works is another question, see above.

"That's silly! You can't possibly be penalized for beiong on the same 'Class-C IP address' because there's no such thing. Since 1993 the Internet has used classless IP," exclaims the SEO.
"Well, then, that unique Class-C IP address hosting I have must be working."

As was pointed out to you in the next post, any good SEO expert is aware of what the OP refers to. I remain dazzled by your ability to understand and stick with the technical definition and semantics.


Very true. However it was merely to illustrate that some companies are perfectly willing to tell lies or spread fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) in order to sell something to customers that they do not need, do not want and will be of zero benefit whilst lightening their bank account in favour of the vendors revenue.

If this is true, you shouldn't be excepting certain companies from the list. Anyway, don't care to argue further

#11 chrishirst

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

If everything Matt Cutts said was true, 4 of my competitors would have been delisted years ago. Of course he'll say that Google is onto every trick in the book so don't try it.


So you haven't considered the possibility that any "tricks" have already been discounted or devalued and those URLs are there because they 'deserve' to be shown to users and your URLs don't??

any good SEO expert is aware of what the OP refers to

show me a good SEO "expert"!!!!


A "REAL SEO", not an "expert" knows that, you only need to be concerned with the the IPs that your sites are hosted if you are trying to "fool" search engines with massive networks of interlinked URLs. For 98% of website owners it is of absolutely no consequence.

Also, if "similar IPs" are so bad, why do the same "experts" suggest that having blogs on Wordpress or Blogger/Blogspot that link to "your site" are important for search engines?
There is a limited range of IPs in use for those URLs, so both statements cannot be correct.

Edited by chrishirst, 26 October 2012 - 08:12 AM.


#12 lister

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:00 PM

Im interested in this thread but to be honest im a little bit lost -

Can someone just chime in and confirm that it DOESN'T MATTER if my neighbour on the same IP range is peddling porn or spamming? That's their problem right - not mine?

Am I right with this thinking or does my neighbour, or could my neighbour lower my ratings as well?

#13 Jill

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:18 AM

If you share the exact IP address as a spammer, that's probably not good. If you're just on the same host with a spammer, it shouldn't affect your site unless most of the other sites on that host are also spammy.

#14 lister

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:59 AM

ok thanks but how do we check for the other domains and whether they are spammy? Would you think that my hosting would police that? My hosting is the largest in the US

#15 Jill

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

Is there some reason why you're concerned?




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