47 replies to this topic

[DanThies]

Well, I've joined SEMPO. I think it's high time that someone made an effort like this, and they're actually funded to a reasonable level, to where I think the thing won't be a flash in the pan.

At the moment, there isn't a whole lot there in terms of the 'member's only' information, etc. One might even say it's next to nothing, but I expect that it's under development.

[Jill]

Good for you, Dan! Keep us posted on whether you think it's worth it or not. Which membership level did you choose?

I agree that SEMPO will definitely not be a flash in the pan. It's already too late for that.

It will certainly be interesting to watch and see how it grows and whether it's something wortwhile to the little SEO.

I can't help but think it's biggest target market is more the advertising side of SEM. The PPCers, etc. They seem to see the need for this sort of group more than that old-time, die-hard SEO techie types. Having Brett on the board can certainly help with that though.

Definitely stay tuned!

Jill

[DanThies]

I went for the "Executive Level" (the cheap one)...

They *really* need to get their stuff together soon. An insecure landing page from the membership form (which they fixed after I asked about it), no receipt for the expense, nothing in the 'members' section of their site yet.

[HorseCove]

Hi Dan,

The SEMPO web site is a labor of love done by volunteers and most of it was pieced together in the last three weeks. And due to circumstances beyond our control the secure server stuff wasn't worked out until the weekend before the SES conference. So when you judge it, be kind. Or better yet, get involved and help out. We could definitely use your expertise.

SEMPO is actively looking for volunteers to write case studies, articles, and material to help fill out the site. We'd welcome your input and suggestions.

Congratulations on joining Dan. One of the neat things about getting involved early in an organization's formation is you can help shape it. If there are specific things you want, let's push for them now. I'll be right there with you.

Christine

Edited by HorseCove, 27 August 2003 - 05:17 AM.

[Bernard]

Christine,

Perhaps you could shed some light on what direction the inner circle has decided for SEMPO? Barbara indicated in an e-mail that SEMPO is not *currently* requiring professional qualifications for membership. Are there plans to do so in the future?

At this point in time, SEMPO is open to *anyone* with money. This includes scam artists. By listing unscreened members in a directory, SEMPO is giving them a de-facto endorsement. Does SEMPO not forsee the possibility that business people might look to SEMPO members for examples of Professionals in the industry and get taken? Would this truly help the industry (much less SEMPO itself)?

Here in Texas, there is no regulation in the home building industry. Anyone can declare themselves a homebuilder and take people's money. A few years ago, a builder in our area declared bankruptcy leaving over 40 families and hundreds of creditors stuck with millions of dollars of investment down the tubes. It turns out this guy has done this three times now in Texas. He has to wait ten years between bankruptcies, but hey, he's got tons of dough stashed away to play with until then. He is a scam artist of the highest caliber and if a "Home Building Association of Texas" were to admit him as a member because he paid the entrance fee, I would be furious.

I perceive the SEO/SEM industry to be full of these types of people who see an easy opportunity to prey on the uninformed. I don't see SEMPO preparing to safeguard themselves or the industry at large from the fallout that will be inevitable when businesses get taken by any of their membership.

[DanThies]

SEMPO isn't really intended to do that, Bernard. A SEMPO membership isn't a "stamp of approval." Just like joining AAA doesn't make you a better driver.

I understand what your concerns are, and I share them. SEMPO needs to be clear about what the members directory is.

The fact is, getting anyone to agree on professional standards in this industry is a big can of worms. You know that I have my own opinions on the subject, and I'm not shy about expressing them. Which I will do when the subject comes up.

[HorseCove]

Dear Bernard,

I understand your concerns and share many of your feelings. Many of my current clients have come to me to help them out of "situations" they were placed in by "overzealous" SEOs.

I guess before I say anything I should preface it with a statement that I am talking here as Christine Churchill SEO, not Christine Churchill SEMPO Board Member.

First off, there seems to be a lot of confusion about why SEMPO was formed. Plain and simple, SEMPO was formed to promote the value of the service of search engine marketing. The idea is to educate more businesses about how effective search is as a marketing vehicle. This will increase the number of businesses that rely on professional marketers for help.

Bernard, your specific question had to do with whether SEMPO was set up to be a Standards Board. The answer is no (at least that is not the current plan). While I share your concern over bad practices, my personal belief is that if SEMPO tried to become a Standards Board at this stage of its existence it would divide the community and cause the organization to fail.

We don't want to exclude people we want to convert them. Leading by example is more persuasive than tossing out unenforceable laws.

There's also the fact that we don't need to be a Standard's Board. The search engines are cracking down on practices they deem unfit already. That's the search engine's job, not SEMPO's. SEMPO has an aggressive enough agenda just getting established without turning itself into the "Spam Police" (Thank you Danny Sullivan for use of your phrase.)

I view SEMPO as a organization's who's time has come. Search engine marketing is a real profession and we should be proud of it. I see great benefits in joining together. Most SEO shops are small businesses (much like my own one person shop). Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get health or life insurance at a group rate? And what happens if we have a serious issue with a search engine? Today it's just my personal gripe - if we speak as a united voice we carry more clout. As part of SEMPO the professional organization, we can qualify for many benefits and discounts we wouldn't be eligible for as individuals.

Bernard, I'm not saying SEMPO is utopia. My best suggestion is the same one I gave to Dan. If you want SEMPO to be something or do something, get involved. Influence where it is going. You can make a difference.

Christine

[Jill]

Great post, Chris! One of these days you may even sell me on this SEMPO thing if you keep this up.

[qwerty]

Bernard, your specific question had to do with whether SEMPO was set up to be a Standards Board. The answer is no (at least that is not the current plan). While I share your concern over bad practices, my personal belief is that if SEMPO tried to become a Standards Board at this stage of its existence it would divide the community and cause the organization to fail.

I can see the logic behind that. My concern is that it doesn't appear to be mentioned on the site. That is, you talk about what the organization is, but not what it isn't, and in the current environment, I think that's important.

Go through the archives of Jill's newsletters and you'll see that a pretty big portion of the letters she receives from people asking her advice are of the "I hired an SEO firm that said they could get me to the top of the SERPS and now it looks like they've done some pretty risky things to my site" type. So it's a concern not just of people in the industry, but a lot of the public.

So what I'd like to see on SEMPO's home page, along with

SEMPO is a non-profit professional association working to increase awareness and promote the value of Search Engine Marketing worldwide.

is something to the effect of "membership in SEMPO should not be taken as an indication of a given SEM firm's particular methods or practices. We are here to promote the industry in general; not to promote any concepts of 'proper' techniques. As such, we strongly suggest that organizations in search of SEM firms carefully research our members before making any decisions." That would be fine with me.

[Jill]

Great idea, Bob! Email that over to Barbara Coll.

Jill

[qwerty]

I think Barbara's too busy to deal with me right now. I'm kind of hoping the SEMPO members in here will tell me what they think of the idea, and maybe bring it up themselves. I think a member's voice would carry much more weight at this point than mine would.

[HorseCove]

Qwerty,

I think your request is very reasonable and I will be glad to relay your request to Barbara. I will also bring it up to the Board.

I appreciate your input. As you can understand, this is a very delicate area. I have had a number of people in the industry relay similar concerns although none actually gave me the nice words to use (Thank you!).

Christine

[qwerty]

Thanks Christine. I think a clear statement like that would push a lot of people in the direction of joining the group.

[MakeMeTop]

Well, I've decided to take the plunge - just waiting for Barbara to send me wire transfer details. I'm going the whole hog and opting for Circle Membership. I completely agree that there should be a disclaimer about membership not being an endorsement of any companies methods and potential clients should check all references etc. carefully.

I wanted WAIM to work and firmly believe in there being an industry voice to promote SEO/SEM. Although I'm not entirely convinced this is the right way to go about it, I feel that having a voice inside which may be heard - as I am making a pretty solid financial committment, is the best way to influence the future direction of the organisation.

Here's hoping it all works out.

[Bernard]

Christine, thank you for your thoughtful reply. However, you only partially understood my concern.

I am not inquiring whether or not SEMPO will become a "spam police". I understood that it would not and that's fine - SEMPO has a different mission.

I take exception to the use of the word "Professional" in the organization's title when there are no qualifications or standards to justify the use of that word. The organization's name is misleading according to the stated mission. Non-profit professional organizations are almost always concerned with promoting professional practices within an industry. If SEMPO were named SEMMO I would not have brought this up.

This is the first non-profit "professional" organization I have ever seen that actively promotes their membership's commercial concerns. SEMPO will allow convicted con artists prominent exposure if they pay the entrance fee. That is my biggest concern. SEMPO is enjoying a high profile right now and the potential for harming the entire industry is very real IMHO.

Qwerty hit the nail on the head. IMHO, SEMPO should make absolutely clear that

• the membership is not in any way vetted for professional qualifications or business practices
• SEMPO is not endorsing any of the members
• all listings are really just paid advertisements