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Posted 20 August 2003 - 03:30 PM
I was speaking to a friend of mine about his realtor site, and I told him I would do some optimization for him for free. Daaangg, what a good friend I am!
The site is framed built (jcfischer.com) and I simply have never worked w/ frames before.
It needs SEO in other areas too, but at least I have know where to start on the other areas. The only thing I know about frames is that you can write search friendly copy in the noframes tags. Anybody have any more info on frames? Or, if you have done SEO for a frames site, could you list it so I can look at the source. Whatever info is great. Thanks,
Posted 20 August 2003 - 05:58 PM
My site is frames based, and I haven't had any trouble getting a good
My index page is two frames, one is the menu and the other is the homepage
and any other pages that are clicked to.
I just do what they say to do. I make the index page no-frames default a full, useful
main page, with links to other pages in my site. Every page in my
site can be reached by starting on this no-frames page and navigating
through the site.
I don't have any evidence that this has hurt me in the least.
( I just put this in because I can't resist it--it looks like
the evil Dogbert!
Posted 20 August 2003 - 06:44 PM
Why not just remove the site from frames? Usually, you can accomplish the same thing by using server side includes, and it's much better for search engines rankings.
Posted 21 August 2003 - 02:32 AM
You can use frames to get good rankings, but IMO the site in question would be just as nice without frames. It would save you a lot of reading and work to simply quit the frames as the site needs SEO redesign anyway.
BUT if you really want the frames (as I do) you should read the topic regarding frames and search engines in SEO No-No's. You will find a link to an extremely helpful article. My new site fejo.pentia.dk (still under construction) uses the technique described therein (Self-referencing framesets) an it works fine.
Also I tried to make the guru's come up with some hard evidence why frame-sites should rank poorly instead of the usual "don't use frames - they are not SE friendly". But nothing really comes up, so I guess the frames-dislike also prevalent in this forum comes from seeing millions of frame-sites build wrong (as my old site was).
Posted 22 August 2003 - 04:22 PM
I've seen this come up many times, but I've never been able to figure out what frames were.
Posted 22 August 2003 - 04:51 PM
can be loaded with different web pages independently.
This is called frames. Since search engines can't tell what is in
all the frames it is hard to index. Indeed, if your home page
is just a bunch of frames assignments it may have no content, and
[Edited excessive smilies.]
Edited by Jill, 22 August 2003 - 07:47 PM.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 02:24 PM
Yes, Jill, I was trying to see how many smilies I could get away with, and you appropriately slapped me down
[Edited excessive smilies.]
Posted 27 August 2003 - 09:24 PM
Quick question: Do I assume correctly that if I write the keyword-rich copy in the no-frames, the actual copy won't need to be changed? The actual copy is fine, just not optimized.
Posted 27 August 2003 - 11:24 PM
It used to be referred to as "lazy man's cloaking."
Posted 28 August 2003 - 02:12 AM
Apparently frames offer one advantage over regular sites: You get no spam-mails even if you mail-address is visible on the site.
On a regular site, mail-links <a href="mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org"> are found by malicious engines that just seem to crawl sites to collect mail-addresses, which are then used for spam-mails.
On a frame-site you can just put your mail-address in a frame that won't get spidered, i.e. a file that isn't referenced in the noframes tag of your frameset page. For example the navigation frame.
So if you don't need your mail-address in the (copy-rich) content pages that should get spidered, you won't get spam from that source.
If somebody knows of a way to prevent spiders from collecting mail-addresses in the copy of a non-frames site please do tell!
Posted 28 August 2003 - 08:05 AM
IMHO I don't believe that reason ranks very high for keeping frames
You get no spam-mails even if you mail-address is visible on the site.
on a web site. I stand to be corrected on the following statement but
I don't know of anyone the top 100 web site out there that uses frames.
I don't like frames and I don't believe I can be convinced otherwise
to any "positive" points that would make a frames site better for indexing
than a non-framed site.
You have to jump through too many hoops to get to the SEO golden ring.
Oh yea, there are "tricks", but IMHO that's all they are - tricks.
O.K. I am ready to be educated. Go for it, really, I'll listen to you and
try to hear you out.
Posted 28 August 2003 - 09:13 AM
1) An online application like a content management system where you need to scroll through long lists and still have the "controls" available to the user.
2) Content-heavy sites like government or educational sites where you cannot break huge documents into several documents (for whatever reason).
For any other site, you should aim to have the page fit within one "double" screen, that is, you should only have to scroll the length of the screen one time. Anything longer than that should be broken into multiple pages; a single screen scroll is easy for the user to return to the navigation area.
Frames used to be used for ease of updating the site navigation but that can be more easily done today using server-side includes files.
They can be done well and they can complement the design of a site but generally, you can accomplish the same look without using frames. If you feel you need them because there is so much content on the page, you may need to consider breaking that content out to multiple pages. A real problem is that often frames hide that additional content because people overlook the internal scroll bar.
Posted 28 August 2003 - 09:30 AM
You have a form or some information that pulls from another site, but want it to be integrated into your site.
E.g., shopping carts that are on a separate secure server, or in my case a registration setup up form for my seminar, which comes from a registration company's server.
That said, these are only a few pages of your site, and are not intended to rank highly in the search engines. The frames (or iframes) are used as a convenience only.
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