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Ebook - Minimum Serach Violumes ?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Toplink

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 09:16 PM

I have been researching affiliate programs for my wife and have registered a couple of domain names related to her hobby. Then I came across Click Bank and ebooks. There are a couple of topics that she could write a really good ebook about.

So maybe someone could help me with some really basic questions?

Keyword & Volume. I have been researching some keywords related to her ebook topic that would be also be used as the domain name. What type of keyword search volume would you say is the minimum required to even consider launching a website and ebook? 1 million per month? 10,000 per month? 1,000 per month?

The ebook. Whilst I appreciate the value of an ebook is really about the contents, and 1 page could be valuable, what sort of length (words/pages) do ebooks tend to be?

Any help much appreciated.


#2 Michael Martinez

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE(Toplink @ Sep 4 2010, 07:16 PM) View Post
Keyword & Volume. I have been researching some keywords related to her ebook topic that would be also be used as the domain name. What type of keyword search volume would you say is the minimum required to even consider launching a website and ebook? 1 million per month? 10,000 per month? 1,000 per month?


Chasing keywords is going about it the hard way. Think about it. The more active a keyword is, the more likely other people are to try to position their content in that keyword. The more people competing for that traffic, the more difficult it becomes to compete in that keyword.

What you and your wife should think of is how to create a brand-value resource that people will search for and discuss and share. That isn't done mechanically or on a time table. I've seen people do it in a matter of days and I've seen people take several years to build up that kind of value and recognition. There is no formulaic approach to Web marketing that guarantees success, but there are a lot of bad ideas out there that make it look easy.

QUOTE
The ebook. Whilst I appreciate the value of an ebook is really about the contents, and 1 page could be valuable, what sort of length (words/pages) do ebooks tend to be?


An eBook can be as long as it needs to be. Some people, in order to stretch out their eBooks, have used lots of white space and big fonts. Some people include a lot of graphics.

Some companies sell very short "white papers" for hundreds of dollars per copy. Some people give away very long eBooks for free.

#3 Toplink

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:51 AM

QUOTE(Michael Martinez @ Sep 5 2010, 01:40 PM) View Post
Chasing keywords is going about it the hard way. Think about it. The more active a keyword is, the more likely other people are to try to position their content in that keyword. The more people competing for that traffic, the more difficult it becomes to compete in that keyword.


Yes. Quite right. In my keyword research i am looking for long tail keywords that do not have too much competition.

But having never done affiliate marketing or selling ebooks before, I just wondered if there was a base level of monthly searches that made the whole thing viable. Some sort of 'gut feel' perhaps. That if monthly searches for your chosen keyword are below a certain level, it's not worth bothering?



#4 chrishirst

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:27 AM

Keyword research is really for PPC campaigns not affiliate marketing so you really are looking at the wrong end of things.


Writing an "ebook" is about how useful the subject is going to be for the ebook purchasing public and therefore more likely to sell.
Writing it for "keywords" is pretty much guaranteed to make it "less than interesting".

Really one of the first step in marketing ebooks to an existing market is to establish the author as an authority or at least a credible source on the topic,

#5 PatrickGer

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 07:34 AM

QUOTE
But having never done affiliate marketing or selling ebooks before, I just wondered if there was a base level of monthly searches that made the whole thing viable. Some sort of 'gut feel' perhaps. That if monthly searches for your chosen keyword are below a certain level, it's not worth bothering?


I have never seen anyone get the reply they wanted to hear to this type of question on an SEO / IM forum. I hope you don't take this as negative criticism, just as input so you can save some time in case you plan on asking this on other forums. The typical reply is that way too many factors are involved to give you a reply, and I think that makes sense.

It depends on the profit margin (or well the price at which you'll be able to sell the e-book, as profit margin for e-books is pretty high lol), it depends on how well the search engine traffic will convert into customers (this can vary a ton depending on the keywords and how targeted they are,etc.). It will depend on how far the keyword tool's search volume is off (those numbers always have to be taken with a BIG graint of salt). And of course it will depend on how much money you plan on making with it in your mind.

Im really just saying..questions like this usually leave the person who asks them without the reply they were hoping to get on SEO forums (hope you understand Im not trying to be "negative" or anything just trying to save you the time if you plan on asking this on other forums).

#6 Michael Martinez

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE(Toplink @ Sep 5 2010, 12:51 AM) View Post
Yes. Quite right. In my keyword research i am looking for long tail keywords that do not have too much competition.

But having never done affiliate marketing or selling ebooks before, I just wondered if there was a base level of monthly searches that made the whole thing viable. Some sort of 'gut feel' perhaps. That if monthly searches for your chosen keyword are below a certain level, it's not worth bothering?


This is why I suggested you think about creating brand value. When you build brand value you change the number of monthly searches on a keyword. How many searches it's getting today is irrelevant. How many searches it gets because of your eBook tomorrow is up to you.

#7 Toplink

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 05:29 AM

QUOTE(PatrickGer @ Sep 5 2010, 10:34 PM) View Post
I have never seen anyone get the reply they wanted to hear to this type of question on an SEO / IM forum. I hope you don't take this as negative criticism, just as input so you can save some time in case you plan on asking this on other forums. The typical reply is that way too many factors are involved to give you a reply, and I think that makes sense.

It depends on the profit margin (or well the price at which you'll be able to sell the e-book, as profit margin for e-books is pretty high lol), it depends on how well the search engine traffic will convert into customers (this can vary a ton depending on the keywords and how targeted they are,etc.). It will depend on how far the keyword tool's search volume is off (those numbers always have to be taken with a BIG graint of salt). And of course it will depend on how much money you plan on making with it in your mind.

Im really just saying..questions like this usually leave the person who asks them without the reply they were hoping to get on SEO forums (hope you understand Im not trying to be "negative" or anything just trying to save you the time if you plan on asking this on other forums).


No problem. I understand where you are coming from. Bit like asking how long is a piece of string !

#8 Toplink

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 05:32 AM

QUOTE(Michael Martinez @ Sep 6 2010, 01:14 PM) View Post
This is why I suggested you think about creating brand value. When you build brand value you change the number of monthly searches on a keyword. How many searches it's getting today is irrelevant. How many searches it gets because of your eBook tomorrow is up to you.


Yes, fair point. I guess I thought that keyword searches (long tail) might be relevant, as an indication of the interest there aws in the topic. i.e. If a million people a month are searching for "what to look for when buying a secondhand car" and the competition for the string is not great. maybe it is worth writing an ebook on it.


#9 PatrickGer

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 06:08 AM

QUOTE
No problem. I understand where you are coming from. Bit like asking how long is a piece of string !


the reason is mostly that I used to ask similar questions myself in the beginning biggrin.gif - wondering how many searches a certain keyword would get hoping that would tell me how much potential for sales there is. but those keyword tools (at least back then) were often off by a factor of 10 or more on certain search terms.

for example there is the wordtracker tool which takes data from meta search engines and extrapolates those to the overall internet population...but the people using meta search engines could be totally different from the overall internet population, which could cause the extrapolated numbers to be way off...

then there was the overture keyword tool by yahoo. search volumes were often extremely inflated for various reasons.

After a while I came to the conclusion that people might have a point when they talked about kw tools mostly helping in a relative way to compare keywords to one another, and that one might want to to understand where they get their data from and double-check them with those volumes in another tool that gets its data differently...and then apply a bit of common sense and wonder "How many people are truly interested enough in searching for this out there?".

the conversion rate and price at which youll be able to sell the e-book (or another product) not being known is another factor that makes it even more difficult to predict.

@everyone:

What's up with the keyword tools of today? I only really know that overture doesnt exist anymore, wordtracker still seems to exist, and google has started to display numbers rather than just green bars.....but....Are the numbers google's adwords tool shows spot on? Or are they often off in the same way that overture was? I remember asking this in the past, and some people said the numbers were (at least) relatively close and only off by a factor of 2 or so....Any truth to this?

If someone wanted to know how much search traffic he can get - in google - from a certain keyword...would his/her best be to just go to g's keyword tool? or would running a quick adwords campaign and extrapolating the clicks on paid ads to what could be happening in the organic ads be a better indication?

Im not really gonna do this myself, now - just curious...maybe itll help toplink

#10 Jill

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:37 AM

QUOTE
I guess I thought that keyword searches (long tail) might be relevant, as an indication of the interest there aws in the topic. i.e. If a million people a month are searching for "what to look for when buying a secondhand car"


If a million people a month are searching for something, then it's not "long tail."

Long tail keywords, by their very definition mean that they get hardly any searches. Like maybe 1 a month or even 1 a year.

The idea of long tail searches is that if you get traffic for hundreds of different ones each month, that adds up to nice targeted traffic.

But it's difficult to do keyword research for long tail keywords because they won't show up in keyword research tools since they don't have many searches. Which is fine, because you don't actually need to optimize for long tail searches. You just write naturally and you'll be found for them. That's what blogging is all about!

#11 PatrickGer

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:13 PM

what I find is important to know for someone doing keyword research to estimate the search volume of a certain keyword...is that...in some niches the "tail of search" (the sum of all long tail keywords) might be a lot less than the few (dozen) main search phrases that receive the majority of traffic.

On the other hand, in other niches, the "head of search" might only receive the minority of search traffic in that niche, whereas the majority of search traffic arrives on websites from long-tail searches.

Thus taking the top few keywords..or those that you see in the keyword tools..as an indication of how much traffic there might be (even if those numbers are correct)...might be another flaw in someone's keyword research...if what Jill/you state(s) is correct and many long-tail keywords arent even showing up in keyword research tools (it does make sense!), then in certain niches there might be way more traffic than the keyword research tool suggests.

or there's a lot less than you imagine, because there isn't a lot of long-tail traffic out there (and you expect it).

Are my thoughts about this correct?


QUOTE(Jill @ Sep 6 2010, 02:37 PM) View Post
If a million people a month are searching for something, then it's not "long tail."

Long tail keywords, by their very definition mean that they get hardly any searches. Like maybe 1 a month or even 1 a year.

The idea of long tail searches is that if you get traffic for hundreds of different ones each month, that adds up to nice targeted traffic.

But it's difficult to do keyword research for long tail keywords because they won't show up in keyword research tools since they don't have many searches. Which is fine, because you don't actually need to optimize for long tail searches. You just write naturally and you'll be found for them. That's what blogging is all about!



#12 Michael Martinez

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 03:30 AM

QUOTE(PatrickGer @ Sep 6 2010, 04:08 AM) View Post
What's up with the keyword tools of today? I only really know that overture doesnt exist anymore, wordtracker still seems to exist, and google has started to display numbers rather than just green bars.....but....Are the numbers google's adwords tool shows spot on? Or are they often off in the same way that overture was? I remember asking this in the past, and some people said the numbers were (at least) relatively close and only off by a factor of 2 or so....Any truth to this?


How on Earth could anyone outside of Google possibly know how close to reality their reported numbers are?

QUOTE
If someone wanted to know how much search traffic he can get - in google - from a certain keyword...would his/her best be to just go to g's keyword tool? or would running a quick adwords campaign and extrapolating the clicks on paid ads to what could be happening in the organic ads be a better indication?


No. There are other factors that determine where and why people click on listings in search results.

I control the number 1 position on Google for my name, which because of the popularity of some political science professors, a photographer, a minor league baseball player, a few soldiers, a murdered child, and some other guys named "Michael Martinez" (along with my own visibility) generates about 6,600 searches a month. If all the click-through based assumptions were correct, I should be receiving about 40% of that traffic but I don't. Why? Because I'm not the Michael Martinez everyone is looking for. I'm only the Michael Martinez that *some* people are looking for.

Take any and all claims about what traffic you should be receiving from any particular position on a keyword with a huge bag of salt. Factors like page titles, meta descriptions (or alternative text snippets), URLs, inclusion of images, etc. can greatly affect click-through rates.

#13 PatrickGer

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE
How on Earth could anyone outside of Google possibly know how close to reality their reported numbers are?


Someone who has every spot on the front page of Google for a certain search term (or better the top 30-40 results) might know :-)...or at least be able to give a rough estimation ;-).

Okay, I do see your point of course.

EDIT:

After just visiting your website...and reading "search market share" somewhere on it (and knowing you as a guy who doesnt do what the crowd does simply because the crowd does it (assuming that doesnt just hold true for link building))..another question has been raised..as you mentioned the click through theories in the SERPs in this thread.

Have you (or anyone else on this forum, of course!) ever taken the approach of optimizing for a search engine other than Google? Yahoo or MSN in the past, Bing now...

Literally everyone Ive heard about this always states "Google has 60-70% of all search traffic" / "all my search traffic comes from Google"(this one might be a self-fulfilling prophecy...), thus I only really optimize for Google.

Ive always thought (at the back of my head), that optimizing for the SE that gets 30% of the traffic, where you might be able to get the #1 spot (if you cant in google) might be a good idea (as about 99-100% of webmasters optimize for Google wink1.gif).....if the #1 spot does get a much higher percentage of clicks........then again that may not be true, as I agree with the point you made (the SERPs for your name might be an extreme example, but trying to estimate what kind of SERPs we're dealing with and if the #1 ranking will draw the majority of clicks in those SERPs would be yet another unknown variable with room for error ....which equals risk of your campaign not working out the way you were hoping to).

Do you always make Google your priority when optimizing a website? Or do you ever optimize for a search engine with the second highest (or even third) highest market share?

(I assume we have to take conversion rates into account, too - I know of a guy (a former mod at searchguild before it was shut down) who claimed that for one of his sites where he sold a certain kind of software yahoo and msn gave him more sales than Google did, despite google accounting for the majority of his traffic...then again, that seems to be the exception)

thanks..


Edited by PatrickGer, 07 September 2010 - 11:58 PM.


#14 Michael Martinez

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:09 AM

QUOTE(PatrickGer @ Sep 7 2010, 09:36 PM) View Post
After just visiting your website...and reading "search market share" somewhere on it (and knowing you as a guy who doesnt do what the crowd does simply because the crowd does it (assuming that doesnt just hold true for link building))..another question has been raised..as you mentioned the click through theories in the SERPs in this thread.

Have you (or anyone else on this forum, of course!) ever taken the approach of optimizing for a search engine other than Google? Yahoo or MSN in the past, Bing now...


I think you're referring to the SEO Theory Website. Ironically, over 90% of SEO Theory's traffic comes from Google -- although given that people with an interest in search engine optimization overwhelmingly obsess on Google, that should probably be expected.

In my personal network (I don't own SEO Theory -- my employer does), I get tons of traffic from Bing and Yahoo! (more from Bing than Yahoo!) but most still comes from Google. For some terms, nearly all the traffic comes from Bing/Yahoo!.

QUOTE
Ive always thought (at the back of my head), that optimizing for the SE that gets 30% of the traffic, where you might be able to get the #1 spot (if you cant in google) might be a good idea (as about 99-100% of webmasters optimize for Google wink1.gif).....if the #1 spot does get a much higher percentage of clicks........then again that may not be true, as I agree with the point you made (the SERPs for your name might be an extreme example, but trying to estimate what kind of SERPs we're dealing with and if the #1 ranking will draw the majority of clicks in those SERPs would be yet another unknown variable with room for error ....which equals risk of your campaign not working out the way you were hoping to).


I actually don't optimize for any particular search engine. I optimize for search, whether it be site search, Google search, Bing search, whatever.

I stopped optimizing for specific search engines years ago. It was too much trouble and never seemed to work out well anyway. All the major search engines have core audiences that are different and loyal (although I believe that Yahoo!'s core audience is eroding but we won't know for sure for another year or so). Those core audiences are all important to me, not just Google's.

#15 PatrickGer

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 10:17 AM

Yes, I meant SEO theory (didnt know your employer owned it).

Interesting what you said about having stopped optimizing for any specific search engine. Right now, it doesn't click in my mind, but that sort of stuff usually makes me think about it time and again at the back of my mind until something comes out of it..

Any chance that you mean that you see search queries as needs for information/demand. And you supply that information....and whether the people who are searching for the information you supply type their queres into Google or Bing or Yahoo or ... matters very little?

I mean that's how it should work in a perfect world, if search engines were much more advanced than they are today, but today it seems to kind of pay to pay attention to the signals the search engines are using, and the technical short-comings their algorithms have......so this is where optimizing for a specific search engine would come into play (in my mind, anyway)......though of course you could figure out a common denominator of current search technology and optimize for all search engines at once, so to speak.

Based on things youve said in the past I'd say you probably agree with my third paragraph, but not with the fourth (in this post) - otherwise you wouldn't have made the point (in the past) that the links Google knows of and uses might be a lot different from those that another search engines knows of and uses, right?


QUOTE(Michael Martinez @ Sep 8 2010, 07:09 AM) View Post
I think you're referring to the SEO Theory Website. Ironically, over 90% of SEO Theory's traffic comes from Google -- although given that people with an interest in search engine optimization overwhelmingly obsess on Google, that should probably be expected.

In my personal network (I don't own SEO Theory -- my employer does), I get tons of traffic from Bing and Yahoo! (more from Bing than Yahoo!) but most still comes from Google. For some terms, nearly all the traffic comes from Bing/Yahoo!.
I actually don't optimize for any particular search engine. I optimize for search, whether it be site search, Google search, Bing search, whatever.

I stopped optimizing for specific search engines years ago. It was too much trouble and never seemed to work out well anyway. All the major search engines have core audiences that are different and loyal (although I believe that Yahoo!'s core audience is eroding but we won't know for sure for another year or so). Those core audiences are all important to me, not just Google's.






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