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Use Of Keyword In Title Without Repetitiveness?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 iCeR

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 03:35 AM

If I have for example; 2 high traffic related keywords to target on the one page..

Dog Food
Puppy Food

The exact secondary keyword is 'food'.

How would I target these for the one page with maximum effectiveness?

examples;

a. Dog Food and Puppy Food... (repetitive 'food'?)
b. Dog and Puppy Food... (does not effectively target dog food but caters more for puppy food?)
c. Dog Food: Puppy Food... (: considered a space?)
d. any other ideas?

Cheers

#2 chrishirst

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 05:27 AM

How would you SAY it to people?



#3 qwerty

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:03 AM

Are you assuming there could be problems with using the word "food" twice?

#4 iCeR

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE(chrishirst @ Aug 3 2010, 08:27 PM) View Post
How would you SAY it to people?


Food for your Dog or Puppy

QUOTE(qwerty @ Aug 4 2010, 01:03 AM) View Post
Are you assuming there could be problems with using the word "food" twice?


Not so much a problem for SE's, more for users seeing repetitiveness rather than a nice flow.
If Canine Food was targeted as a higher traffic keyword, the title would read;

Dog Food and Canine Food

Yet dogs and canines are the same thing to users. Obviously SE's treat them as different keywords.


#5 qwerty

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:52 AM

This may come down to personal taste, but since dog food isn't the same thing as puppy food (one could argue that puppy food is a particular kind of dog food, or that they're two different things, but in either case, they're not synonymous) I wouldn't have a problem with seeing "Dog Food and Puppy Food" in a title. Since canine food (does anyone actually say that?) is a synonym for dog food, the "and" would make that look clumsy. However, I don't think I'd have a problem with a title of "Dog Food | Canine Food".

#6 iCeR

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE(qwerty @ Aug 4 2010, 02:52 AM) View Post
This may come down to personal taste, but since dog food isn't the same thing as puppy food (one could argue that puppy food is a particular kind of dog food, or that they're two different things, but in either case, they're not synonymous) I wouldn't have a problem with seeing "Dog Food and Puppy Food" in a title. Since canine food (does anyone actually say that?) is a synonym for dog food, the "and" would make that look clumsy. However, I don't think I'd have a problem with a title of "Dog Food | Canine Food".


Haha no I don't think I've heard anyone say canine food.. bad example.
Perfect response and very much appreciated!

#7 chrishirst

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE(chrishirst @ Aug 3 2010, 11:27 AM) View Post
How would you SAY it to people?

QUOTE(iCeR @ Aug 3 2010, 05:36 PM) View Post
Food for your Dog or Puppy

Not so much a problem for SE's, more for users seeing repetitiveness rather than a nice flow.

So why are you not using that for your title??



After all it IS people who will be looking at your title and considering whether to click it or not.


#8 iCeR

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:50 AM

QUOTE(chrishirst @ Aug 4 2010, 06:09 PM) View Post
So why are you not using that for your title??
After all it IS people who will be looking at your title and considering whether to click it or not.



Thanks chrishirst.

For users - definitely! I would use "Food for your Dog or Puppy"".
For SE's - wouldn't this take away the 'maximum effectiveness' factor I described earlier, catering for SE's as well as users?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to balance both - creative/normal title to increase CTR and effective, optimised title from an SEO standpoint.

#9 chrishirst

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:25 AM

The engineers, technicians, analysts and everybody else who work on search engine algorithms are doing their best to make the algos emulate human behaviour and patterns.

They want to show their users what they "think" is best for their users, their aim is for natural language pages to show through the obviously prepared pages.
As I have said before, you need to think like the person who programmed the machine, not the machine itself.

#10 Hichem

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE(chrishirst @ Aug 4 2010, 10:25 AM) View Post
The engineers, technicians, analysts and everybody else who work on search engine algorithms are doing their best to make the algos emulate human behaviour and patterns.



But they didn't succeeded yet ..

Yes, that will be better for everyone, and I think I know why you are saying this, but it's not 100 % the case actually ..

If I will create a page for humans only, I will never rank on Yahoo for example .. never ..
For Google, it's becoming better, but keyword rich texts, titles are still working, and you must work harder to compete with websites made for search engines.

#11 chrishirst

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:20 AM

QUOTE
But they didn't succeeded yet ..

Yes, that will be better for everyone, and I think I know why you are saying this, but it's not 100 % the case actually ..


"they haven't succeded yet"

Yes and that is why I said "doing their best", but the premise still stands. SE engineers are working one way, so does it not make common sense for SEOs to operate in the same direction rather than taking a diametrically opposite approach?
I think the phrase "Pi$$ing into the wind" sums up what so many so-called "SEOs" do


QUOTE
If I will create a page for humans only, I will never rank on Yahoo for example .. never ..
Oh please,

try putting "simple dhtml tabs" (minus the quotes) into any SE you wish and you will find an article of mine (www modtalk.co.uk/article/c-and-s-design/dhtml-tabs/) around #5 in ALL four major SE.
Now that page has had no SEO work other than what features I built into my CMS.
There has been no "link building campaign" for it.

I have not spent one second of time on the article since I wrote it and published it. It was written without any regards for search "engines", it was written for people.

NOW tell me that writing for "humans" is "no good" for SEs

#12 Catz

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE
I think the phrase "Pi$$ing into the wind" sums up what so many so-called "SEOs" do

so-called SEO's being the key phrase there sarcastic_blum.gif

QUOTE
If I will create a page for humans only, I will never rank on Yahoo for example .. never ..


Maybe you don't know enough yet to get your pages to rank well in Yahoo but chrishirst is not alone, I have done the same, without any link building campaign by simply creating websites for human visitors.

No CMS, no blogging software required, just simple hand coded bliss!

Ranking in Yahoo is not some unattainable goal, give it time, keep learning, maybe consider taking a coding course so you understand the basics behind your pages and you should find them ranking in Yahoo eventually too.




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