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How To Optimize For Keywords With Multiple Words


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9 replies to this topic

#1 kman9

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 10:43 PM

I want to know what the mechanics are for optimizing a site for a keyword with multiple words, particularly how close in proximity the words need to be with each other. For example, if I wanted to optimize for a keyword such as "technology entrepreneurship" would it be necessary to have those words right next to each other in the content every time I wanted it to "count" for SEO? I figured that it wouldn't because I've obviously typed in multiple word phrases like this in search engines before and the results usually didn't yield results with the words next to each other. But would it be necessary to try to have about the same number of occurences of the two words even if they weren't next to each other, as if each occurence of "technology" would be matched with an occurence of "entrepreneurship"? Would it be beneficial to have the exact phrase shown rather than having the words seperated if possible?

Also, what if the words showed up on seperate but linked pages? For example, what if I had a page that had the word "technology" on it that was linked to a page that was rich with the word "entrepreneurship"? Would this help optimize for my keyphrase even though they were on seperate pages?

#2 bobmeetin

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 08:16 AM

I think you're trying to overthink, perhaps overexpect, what a search engine should realistically be able to do. I commonly use the expression, key phrase, as opposed to keyword(s) because it talks to the need. I often read that search engines ignore punctuation so you could probably be a little creative and end a sentence with the first part of a key phrase, then begin a new sentence with the balance and get credit. Otherwise, just do your due diligence and write good and value-ad copy.


#3 Jill

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:47 AM

Close proximity is good, but for most phrases that are even the slightest bit competitive you'll want to use the exact phrase a few times on the page for which you're optimizing it. You may also want some anchor text with the exact phrase, that points to the same page, and you'll want to use the exact phrase in the Title.

But also spreading the words out separately throughout the page is a good idea.

#4 qwerty

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 11:53 AM

And if you write a good, informative page about technology entrepreneurship, that's likely to be the result even if you're not thinking about how search engines are going to treat the page. You're going to have the words together, separately, in singular and plural, and you'll likely use synonyms.

Those are the signals a search engine looks for because that's what you'll find on a good page.

#5 PatrickGer

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:24 PM

I would add that, at the end of the day it should still look somewhat natural (to the SEs). In other words don't overoptimize, as that might be c ounterproductive.

@everyone: I remember reading in a book on SEO (I think) that there was basically a perfect percentage of links that should have the anchor text of the keyword you're trying to rank for. And if you had too much of it, that'd have the same effect as having too little of it.

simplified example:

If I have a website on "SEO" and have 10 links, then having the exact anchor text in 2 such links would be ideal. If you "only" have that anchor text in 1 of those links, you could do better by having it in 2 of your 10 links. However if you have it in 3 of those links, the page would basically be over-optimized (and having the exact anchor text in only 2 of those links would be "better" - as in give you a higher score in the SEs ranking algorithm).

Is there any truth to this? I would assume that yes.

I would also assume that overoptimizing like that usually won't lead to a penatly or your site getting banned or anything (unless you totally overoptimized (or call it spam)), right?

I would also assume that the same is true for not just anchor text, but als keywords on the page, etc. - Am I right about this? Is there a way to know (I guess through testing/from experience there is :-))

thanks!

#6 Jill

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE
I would add that, at the end of the day it should still look somewhat natural (to the SEs). In other words don't overoptimize, as that might be c ounterproductive.


I disagree. It shouldn't LOOK somewhat natural, it should BE completely natural. (And of course that there's no such thing as over-optimization as we discussed in another thread since to optimize is to make perfect.)

QUOTE
Is there any truth to this? I would assume that yes.


No. Each page would have it's own perfect amount depending on the keywords, the competition and hundreds of other factors.

QUOTE
I would also assume that overoptimizing like that usually won't lead to a penatly or your site getting banned or anything (unless you totally overoptimized (or call it spam)), right?


Arggh...please remove the word "overoptimize" from your vocabulary. I think you do just mean spam. Or perhaps you mean keyword stuffing.

#7 pinch

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE(Jill @ Apr 4 2010, 09:47 AM) View Post
Close proximity is good, but for most phrases that are even the slightest bit competitive you'll want to use the exact phrase a few times on the page for which you're optimizing it. You may also want some anchor text with the exact phrase, that points to the same page, and you'll want to use the exact phrase in the Title.

But also spreading the words out separately throughout the page is a good idea.


Hi Jill,

I ran into a similar, practical case when doing my keyword research. Probably the most competetive phrase (the most relevant phrase with the most search volume) related to my site is "fantasy football rankings". When I saw this result in theGoogle Adwords tool, I noticed that right underneath it was the phrase "football fantasy rankings", with the exact same search volume.

So in my next step I followed your advice for competetor research by searching for the number of web pages with those exact phrases in the web page title (allintitle:...). What I found seemed very odd: for the phrase "fantasy football rankings" there was over 1 million pages with that exact phrase in the title. When I did the same thing for the phrase "football fantasy rankings", there was only 78!

For me the phrase "football fantasy rankings" seems odd and out-of-order; I certainly wouldn't know how to use it in a sentence. But am I to assume that this is the phrase I should be targetting given the fact that it receives the same search volume as "fantasy football rankings" and considering the [almost unbelievable] discrepancy in number of competing pages?

Edited by pinch, 06 April 2010 - 12:32 PM.


#8 Jill

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 05:59 PM

QUOTE
For me the phrase "football fantasy rankings" seems odd and out-of-order; I certainly wouldn't know how to use it in a sentence. But am I to assume that this is the phrase I should be targetting given the fact that it receives the same search volume as "fantasy football rankings" and considering the [almost unbelievable] discrepancy in number of competing pages?


Are you sure that in the Google Keyword Research Tool you switched it from Broad Match to Exact?

Because I would think that the funny phrase would definitely not have as many exact searches.

#9 PatrickGer

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 06:25 PM

lol @ removing "overoptimize" from my vocabulary ;-). I do understand what you mean, though, and you're correct that overoptimizing isn't possible....only overdoing certain parts of the optimization process I guess (such as using a too high keyword density instead of just writing natural copy using the keywords in natural ways)

#10 pinch

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE(Jill @ Apr 6 2010, 05:59 PM) View Post
Are you sure that in the Google Keyword Research Tool you switched it from Broad Match to Exact?

Because I would think that the funny phrase would definitely not have as many exact searches.


Yes that was it, switched to 'exact' and the searches plummeted.

Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the help.




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