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How Can We Make Backlinks On .edu And .org Domain Sites?


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19 replies to this topic

#16 Randy

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 09:56 AM

QUOTE
But do this for a moment - think back to before you became a seasoned veteran. If you are lucky maybe you worked as a SEO sidekick until your learned the ropes.


Ha! There weren't any recognized SEO's to sidekick for back then! Nor any books to read on the subject. And frankly we were all "dummies" to some degree.

Back then it was done exactly the way it should probably be done today, but isn't very often.

We would each set up hundreds of little tests of different things, trying to determine what had positive effect and what didn't. Then we would congregate at a forum somewhere (usually several) to share not only the results of our tests, but the methodology we used when constructing and conducting the test. Others would see if they could repeat these tests in different markets --though honestly back in the very early days there was only one or two markets that was competitive enough to give decently quick and meaningful results-- sometimes tweaking the test methodology a bit or constructing the test a bit differently to see if we could produce opposing results. The idea being that if the results of one test directly contradicted the results of another, neither could be trusted to be 100% true.

It was sort of an unspoken but understood rule that we would try come up with contrary results someone else had gotten. If we got opposite results but our testing methodology was sound, more testing was definitely needed. Conversely if we tried our best to get contrary results but ended up with the same results, then the first test gained more acceptance.

In other words, it wasn't a very quick process. It would often take months to compile enough evidence --from multiple tests by multiple people in multiple markets-- for a theory to gain acceptance and move the knowledge bar. Which is why we all shared data. Because the only way to truly prove or disprove anything was to test it as many ways as could be imagined.

#17 Scottie

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 12:50 PM

My problem with it is that people think there is some totally illogical magical formula that they must follow because they "don't know anything."

First of all, if you don't know anything, you are better off reading a book on marketing. Marketing a website is only a little different than marketing any other media.

Back when I started, I put my first website up on a host. The very first thing that I realized was that no one knew it was there. I didn't expect magical traffic from the search engines simply because I'd put up a website and told them it was there. Without ever hearing the word SEO or online marketing, I started looking for sites that people might find who would also be interested in my site and asked them (personally, not with a form email web scraper) if they'd mind linking to my site and I offered to link to theirs if they'd like.

It was probably a year later that I learned this was "reciprocal linking." I didn't know it had a name, I just knew that if no one out there linked to my site, no one would ever find it. Common sense.

Nowadays, I talk to soooooo many people who think "putting up a website" is equivalent to starting a business. When I ask them who is going to come to their website... they don't really know. Or they have a vague idea about people who like to buy what they sell. When they do know who they are targeting, I ask them how are those people going to know to find them and inevitably the answer is "they'll find me on the search engines."

Ask them why they think they'll be found for a search and they are stumped. Well, because I put up a site, they say. It should just come up.

These people don't think about the words people will put in a search engine. They don't use them in their content. They don't have any advantage over the 10,000 other sites already in their area.

But they read an article about hiding keywords and they think that will do it...

Sorry for the rant, but the dummies wear me out sometimes! It's marketing, not formulas. Sure, you have to learn about titles and keyword research and navigational structure and then think "marketing". If usability got half the press and interest that SEO does, the net would be a much more productive place...

#18 bobmeetin

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 01:46 PM

You have the advantage over the client of having a marketing mentality. You can think as "you" whereas many clients think as "I". Not all small business can afford to hire an expert (or they think not). The longer you wallow by not taking action, your competitors are moving forward.

I think Sage Lewis put up video dealing with something like, "Build it great and people will find it". The point was contrary, you want to believe people will find it just because it's the best, but it doesn't work that way. You still must do the marketing.

The real question then becomes, "Who is the police force or authority that sets the standards?" Aside from the fact that Google (or whichever) provides some information about what meets their standards, guidelines, some general recommendations, where is the higher authority that governs the book publishers, bloggers, and others and keeps them from posting rumors? And thus limiting a would be great Dummies book to accurate content?

There's a saying,
QUOTE
"I love standards - there are so many to choose from."


This is the essence of violent agreement.

#19 Jill

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 02:13 PM

Scottie's post reminds me of The Evolution of a Search Marketer, which is a must read for anyone trying to learn SEO!

#20 Catz

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:02 AM

QUOTE(Scottie @ Mar 24 2010, 12:50 PM) View Post
Back when I started, I put my first website up on a host. The very first thing that I realized was that no one knew it was there. I didn't expect magical traffic from the search engines simply because I'd put up a website and told them it was there. Without ever hearing the word SEO or online marketing, I started looking for sites that people might find who would also be interested in my site

That's almost exactly the same thing I did, well before discovering SEO or online marketing. Without knowing what SEO was, I was naturally creating well optimized content through using common sense.

It also helped being a hand coder from the start, so many of the items others have to think to add after the fact were added naturally as pages were being coded.

I created a free online gameroom to go along with my regular site content (long, long ago, back when there weren't many) with java and javascript games as I was learning and playing with the code...and the links began coming in naturally. People I had never heard of were linking to my pages because they enjoyed the content. What a concept.

They ranked well and it became a challenge to take a page or site from relative obscurity and bring it to light for all to see. If you love a good challenge, you should do well in SEO. If you just want to rush though using the latest fad to succeed, you are not in it for the long run. No tricks or hiding information, just straight forward pages with content people enjoy.

I think avoiding the latest fad or SEO trick people came out with made a huge difference too.
QUOTE(Scottie @ Mar 24 2010, 12:50 PM) View Post
Nowadays, I talk to soooooo many people who think "putting up a website" is equivalent to starting a business. ...When they do know who they are targeting, I ask them how are those people going to know to find them and inevitably the answer is "they'll find me on the search engines."

Ask them why they think they'll be found for a search and they are stumped. Well, because I put up a site, they say. It should just come up.

They don't have any advantage over the 10,000 other sites already in their area.
If usability got half the press and interest that SEO does, the net would be a much more productive place...

How funny, and so true. There is about to be a real influx of new designers coming into the workforce that were graphic designers in the print media whose newspapers and magazines shut down. They are taking courses now on grant funds being offered to displaced workers through the stimulus program.

Graphic designers turned web designers out there without a clue about usability or SEO. No thought as to how the site will perform for their clients, it's all about the look. Those that can get past the look of a site and focus on it's content (making the crossover from graphic to web designer) will end up creating sites that actually perform well.

In time, clients will end up wondering what happened, their site "looked" so impressive. Hopefully for their sake they will do some research and discover the importance of proper SEO, or at least text on the page.

We had hoped people were beyond the splash or intro pages but they have become much more popular again among graphic and flash designers. What a waste of valuable web real estate!




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