89 replies to this topic

[BBCoach]

That's a pretty thin example Mc. Of course the title of the page and the content on the home
page didn't have any influence on that parsing did it? And, of course the remaining SERP listings don't
parse the words (after the first one). It's treated as one word. Strange how that works.

If what you're saying is true, then if you query [buy a pen] or [buypen] the example website which has a page
named buypen.html should rank first right? Funny how the #1 SERP is howitworks.html from penexpress.com. Although
that page is ranked 6 or 7 depending on how you count the SERPs.

Perhaps I'm a bit thick, but I don't see how having keywords in a URL/URI has a significant impact when those pages
are optimized to begin with. It just could be a bunch of other factors affecting the rankings. As one who constantly
researches this stuff, I'm not blowing it off, but I ain't wasting my time trying to build thousands of pages
with keywords either. I'll keep watching though, some things do change over time.

[1dmf]

Exactly how, in your opinion, would Google parse the following url: www.penisland.net

You are right, "Pen Island".

Oh come on Ian, I find that hard to swallow!

[blackirish.ken]

Hi, what about keywords in a redirected url or alias?

Would an alias text link (with target keywords) benefit the original domain/website its redirected to, or does the redirect devalue the keywords in the text link?

Thanks,
Ken

Edited by blackirish.ken, 04 January 2009 - 02:26 PM.

[Jill]

If it's 301 redirected then it's basically not seen by the engines.

[mcanerin]

"If what you're saying is true, then if you query [buy a pen] or [buypen] the example website which has a page
named buypen.html should rank first right?"

Absolutely not. That's rather like saying that because I said that a keyword in a title is an important part of SEO, that anyone with a keyword in their title should automatically be number one for that keyword.

Just because that's clearly false doesn't mean that keywords in titles are not looked at and don't count. It also doesn't mean it's impossible to rank for a term unless you have a keyword in the title. There are lots of factors for ranking, and all I've been saying is that the filename/url of the page is one of them.

There is no aspect of SEO that is a magic bullet to the top, and of course that includes filenames. But that doesn't mean that since nothing makes an absolute difference means that nothing matters.

"I'm not blowing it off, but I ain't wasting my time trying to build thousands of pages with keywords either"

I would not suggest doing that, or renaming all your pages, either. Not unless you are about to do a complete re-launch anyway. But that doesn't mean that as you create pages in the future, that you should not consider building pages that are named for the topic they are about.

I do know, and can speak from experience, that when you get to the "Goliath vs Goliath" level of competition, you need to use every single tool and tactic available. Until then, at the "David vs David" and "David vs Goliath" levels of competition, it's a better use of time to focus on the basics.

Ian

Edited by mcanerin, 12 January 2009 - 12:56 AM.

[Travelguy]

Keywords alone in the URL are not the only factor for ranking a page. However, they definitely have a big inpact (bigger than most the factors individually and than many factors combined).

Factors include:

Page Title
Inbound links
Relatedness of inbound links
Pagerank of inbound link pages
pagerank of page
content of the page
meta description
URL

All things being equal if you have 2 pages about "BMX Bikes" and one page's url is www.keyword.com and the other is www.nokeyword.com the first will outrank the second.

If one is www.keyword.com/bmx_bikes.html and the other is www.nokeyword.com/info.html the first will outrank the second.

If one is www.keyword.com/bmx_bikes/catalogue.html and the other is www.keyword.com/catalougue/index.html the first will outrank the second.

Hope this helps.

[qwerty]

I agree with you that the URL matters, but you take it a bit further, stating that ..."they definitely have a big inpact (bigger than most the factors individually and than many factors combined)."

I don't know about that. I figure it's worth having keywords in the URL because it helps to describe the content of the page for the developer, the user, and the search engine. It makes sense to me that the search engines would count that as an indicator for that exact reason, but I have no idea how much weight they give it.

[Jill]

Travelguy, historically, separating keywords via an underscore does not separate the words to the search engines. If you believe that having keywords in the URL is helpful, you'll want to make sure you separate them via a dash not an undersscore.

[BBCoach]

I'm at this level and my competitors that have used keywords in their page names and/or paths still don't out rank most of my products.

Which is something to be very proud of!

But I suspect that in your case it's not about the keywords in URL's, but rather things like anchor text, domain age/trust and good SEO that have secured your rankings. As long as you are beating your competitors handily with what you are doing, then all is good. Keywords in URL's are far less important than many other things, as your tests (and mine) show.

But if you were in a situation where you were neck and neck with a competitor, I'd be advising you to use everything you can, even if it only makes a small difference. Once you have done all the important stuff (titles, links etc) and are doing well, then competing either becomes a case of holding your own by constantly improving in small ways, or completely rethinking everything and changing the rules. The right approach will vary with each situation.

But please don't assume that what makes little difference for a well-positioned site that is already beating it's competitors won't make any difference to a site that is barely hanging on. It's really not a fair comparison.

Microsoft (to use an extreme example) could make every title in their site say "Type Title Here" and still dominate the SERPS for "Windows". This does not mean that the title is not important. Likewise, any changes to their URL structure or keywords would not likely make a difference, either - the other factors they have in their favor are simply too overwhelming for the minor effect of keywords in URL's to even register.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one, as I simply cannot ignore the data and experiences I have from my own clients and tests.

Cheers,

Ian

Edited by mcanerin, 21 January 2009 - 09:26 PM.

[mcanerin]

Oh, crap. How the hell did that happen?

Sorry BBCoach - I just realized I somehow edited your post rather than replying to you. I'm working off a laptop in a hotel room instead of my usual workstation and must have clicked something I wasn't supposed to.

Jill, is there a way to undo this? I feel really bad.

Ian

[Jill]

Ackk...i'm afraid not. Can remove whole thing...

[ogormask]

My advice has always been if this is a new site then yes you should make it smart from the start and spend some time making a good name and design it from the ground up with good names. If you are already ranking and building links to your site and pages then don't just change things now. leave it and build another if you have to but its much easier to work on what you have since you already have a head start.

[BBCoach]

LOL! That'll confuse someone cruising the forum? I'm converted now.

[amd]

LOL! That'll confuse someone cruising the forum? I'm converted now.

1) so can someone give some advice i was searching on the google keyword tool today and found a keyword with over 37 million global monthly searches then i checked to see if it was available to register and it was is this good idea or not.

2) now secondly does it matter if the search term was (example) trainingin.com or howto.com or jobsin.com or helpon.com and so on and having a name like this would it help my rankings if i had pages called trainingin.com /training in the gym.php or trainingin.com /training in environmental science.php and so on?

thanks any input would be great.

[Michael Martinez]

1) so can someone give some advice i was searching on the google keyword tool today and found a keyword with over 37 million global monthly searches then i checked to see if it was available to register and it was is this good idea or not.

Yes and no.

Yes if you know what you're doing; no if you don't know what you're doing.

2) now secondly does it matter if the search term was (example) trainingin.com or howto.com or jobsin.com or helpon.com and so on and having a name like this would it help my rankings if i had pages called trainingin.com /training in the gym.php or trainingin.com /training in environmental science.php and so on?

Having the keyword in the domain name doesn't help your rankings any more than having it in the page name. HOWEVER, people are more likely to link to your site using the domain name as anchor text, so having the keyword in the domain name means that more of your inbound links will use that keyword.

Of course, it would be a very poorly optimized Website that only pursued one keyword and, quite frankly, you just cannot stuff them all into one URL or one title.

You should instead think about getting a domain name that is unique, easy to remember, and for which you can build brand value.