QUOTE(2Clean @ Aug 5 2009, 03:36 AM)
SEO FF - thanks for your understanding, and I know it might be a bit harsh but you see there's a big problem in the world of SEO, lots of "experts" shovelling a mass of rubbish and inventing great and wonderful theories.
The reality, unfortunately, is that many hide behind these theories, because they seem incapable of analyzing the search engine algo, and instead come out with things like "write good content", something which quite frankly is part and parcel of anything you are trying to sell and communicate, so pretty lame advice in my opinion.
Boy, do I feel like a failure after reading this...lol not totally
I'm not really trying to call you out but I guess it's going to come across that way... what makes you any different from the "many" that hide behind theories? Mind you, this is before I've been able to read your previous posts, which I plan to do if you keep reading. Perhaps I missed something in this thread but I plan to re-read it all to see if I overlooked one of your points.
The first thing I plan to do is go back and read your previous posts and see what I can learn from them. I respect your experience in the field. I don't claim to do everything right. I don't claim to know even a lot about SEO. I do know enough to deliver results and conversion to the few sites I've worked on. I'm sure they could have been achieved in several different ways. Hence, the main reason I visit sites like this. To find out how others are experiencing success and learn from them by applying, testing, repeating.
On many levels your comments are very accurate. If someone has been down the road before (like yourself), they are in a great position to provide valuable and solid advice based on proven techniques and methodologies. What I fail to understand is why it is such a secret. I'm pretty sure nobody is breaking the mold these days as there are various methodologies that work, some better than others. I can only go on what I know, what I've applied and what I've seen work for me and the sites I've worked on. Anyone can spout of theories and numbers (I'm guilty of this too) but nobody can know how genuine some of these theories are without proof. I am certainly not going to jump on board of your methodology simply b/c you say so and b/c you say you've seen it work. For the benefits of the original poster, I think it would help them to understand why one is important vs the other by an example or some sort of credible evidence besides you saying so. This makes it no different than any other "expert shovelling a mass of rubbish." This part of your statement is contradicting. I cant speak for anyone else but I'm not looking to see all of your secret ingredients to success. But I think its fair to ask for something a little more than saying I've seen it done and I've accomplished this. Anything more than that and I think you'll provide benefit to this post. Adi gave a site and supported his theory. I think you can get away with a few specific details and provide benefit.
As someone who's been testing this stuff from right back in the days when Altavista was the search engine to rank under, and Google wasn't even around, I have the luxury of experience. I've seen the industry move from positioning and ranking to holistic web marketing services. All good, but its melded together SEO with information architecture/design and created a kind of in-between category that, in my opinion captures about 80% of the industry.
I respect your experience within this field. It provides a better insight to your comments knowing how long you've been involved in this industry. I have not been around this forum in quite some time. I am all about learning. I don't think I can personally say I will know everything about SEO while I know some people are convinced they have it all. I have done some good things with the few sites I've played around with. I am sure I could have done better and done some things differently. For this reason, I come around forums like this to learn and better myself. I am intrigued by SEO its curveballs and change ups. It is hard to decipher what is rubbish (in some cases) and what is not. There are many different methodologies and I am open to hearing about all of them if people are willing to share. Again, not sure why the secrecy runs so rampant in this industry but it has to be respected I guess.
It's for this reason I tend to throw out methodologies rather than vague and all encompassing ideas about what could, might, or should be. I want people to learn SEO properly. I know how to get results, and I've put clients on the first page of Google among 135million results. What do I deliver? 2-400% increase in targeted traffic via organic search.
I'm not going to challange you on your numbers but by looking at it, I can draw several conclusions of my own of course. Numbers are numbers. Showing what got you those numbers is what I am challanging. This again go back to the secrecy thing. Hopefully, somewhere in your 30 some odd posts, I can get an idea of your methodology and learn something from you. I don't want to continue going off course, but I'll send you a PM later.
SEO is not rocket science, it really isn't, but because very few people can break apart the search engines, it's made out to be by the industry at large. With the net effect that the industry is viewed with distrust.
So, get out a little black book and start making notes, you'll be surprised how easy it is.
Are you stalking me? lol I actually get out precisely a little black book and take notes all the time. I've had to graduate recently to a yellow notepad as the marble notebook brought back some bad memories and I ran out of paper.
I am open-minded to seeing new ideas and methodologies. Perhaps I don't know enough to make my own theories or just don't know how to disprove these theories. I sure don't want to be spoon fed (can't speak for anyone else though) but I want to UNDERSTAND what affected the results. I have problem buying into new ideas but you can't expect someone to buy into an idea without support. I'm sure you would wholly agree.
Now, the somewhat contradicting twist.... one site that I worked on has keywords in the domain along with the company name. The site was ranking on the 1st page in Google (US) for the main keywords. Unfortunately, the keywords were not searched for by users very much so yet it was on the 1st page, it was not delivering traffic. I obtained 1 quality link from a blog and sure enough, the site is now #1 for the keywords. Great, its a # 1 ranking but it means little if its not delivering traffic or conversions. Within the last month, it seems to be delivering more traffic than previous months at #1 but the main reason for the top ranking is not keyword in domain, its linking. Although KID was involved, it was not the reason for the # 1 rank. To reiterate, I think that KID has a place but I have not seen any substantial proof or evidence (other than Adi's reference) that it's a major ranking factor. I am surely open to seeing other examples for those willing to share.
2clean, I am not sure if you are trying to lap me into the "self-proclaimed" expert category but an expert I am not. Anyone can spew rubbish as if it's the be all end all. Still, some detail about how the results were derived or data to support this will get people to buy into your methodologies. At least for me. I'm here to learn just like the next person. I don't tout by putting a link to my successful sites in my signature and expect people to click my link to get additional information. I try to give back what I've learned. SEO is a viscous evolution. Methodologies are not always greeted with open arms. Methodologies with support and facts cannot be argued (unless #'s are skewed) There is more than one road to get to the finish line which I understand. My roads aren't the only roads. I hope to understand some of your roads to success one day.
Congratulations for sticking around all these years (and to the end of this novel post) to become a successful SEO. I do envy your experience, contrary to how this post may be interpretted. Hopefully I don't come across too harsh and my point is understood.
Sorry to JSP for aiding in taking this thread somewhat off course. This will be my last public post not related to the original question. By the way, what have you taken from this post so far? I have not seen a reply since your original post.