Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Subscribe to HRA Now!

 



Are you a Google Analytics enthusiast?

Share and download Custom Google Analytics Reports, dashboards and advanced segments--for FREE! 

 



 

 www.CustomReportSharing.com 

From the folks who brought you High Rankings!



Photo
- - - - -

Dilution Of Link Juice - True/false?


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 rayjoy

rayjoy

    HR 3

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:35 PM

I've tried to find the answer to this question but cannot, so forgive me if this has been asked already, and point me to the page.

Is is true that the more outbound links you have on a page, the less each one of those individual links is worth, (in terms of google page rank) because the "link juice" that is passed on from a page is weakened proportionately by the number of links the "juice" is divided between?

Second question - Would this rationale apply if you had a site where at the bottom you had a group of related links that linked similar pages together, and this "group of links" appeared on everyone of those related pages? ie, does the theory of "reduced link juice" apply when there is reciprocal linking?

#2 mal4mac

mal4mac

    HR 6

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts

Posted 23 June 2009 - 04:10 AM

QUOTE(rayjoy @ Jun 22 2009, 11:35 PM) View Post
I've tried to find the answer to this question but cannot, so forgive me if this has been asked already, and point me to the page.

Is is true that the more outbound links you have on a page, the less each one of those individual links is worth, (in terms of google page rank) because the "link juice" that is passed on from a page is weakened proportionately by the number of links the "juice" is divided between?


You cannot find "the answer" because Google has all the answers, changes the answers, and isn't telling anyone. But my experience is that this is how things usually work.

QUOTE(rayjoy @ Jun 22 2009, 11:35 PM) View Post
Second question - Would this rationale apply if you had a site where at the bottom you had a group of related links that linked similar pages together, and this "group of links" appeared on everyone of those related pages? ie, does the theory of "reduced link juice" apply when there is reciprocal linking?


You can't give every page the PR of the home page!

Here's some notes I took recently, with (hopefully) most "[url=http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15499]Seo Myths[/url]" redacted. It uses terminology you might use to refine your searches for this stuff -- of which there is a lot on the web!:

For 'normal' linking structures the PR of the home page will decrease when adding internal pages.

Home Page (Page0) -> Page1 -> Page2 -> .... -> Page10000 -> ....

Sum total of all PR will be (PR of home page X, damping factor d)

X + d*X + d*d*X + d*d*d*X + .......

= X / (1-d)

if d is say, 0.8 (80%)

it comes out to X/(1-.8) = X/.2= 5*X

You will always end with a total PR of X / (1-d) as long as there are no outgoing links and no 'dead ends'.

So we can increase the sum of PR of pages in the site from X to 5X. By changing the link structure, some pages can get more and some can get less, and the home page generally gets the most since it is linked to most.

Optimal linking for a high home page is linking all pages from the home page while all internal pages just have one link back to the home page. This yields X / (1- d^2) for the home page independent from the number of pages.

If you have pages that don't have to be ranked well (such as "about us" or "Contact us" pages) and have links to some target pages, it will redistribute the PR to the target pages AND will increase rankings in SEs.

[Don't link to a search page or help page from all pages! That's just pissing PR away.]

You don't normally want Contact and About pages to have much PR, but whatever they have, you want to sensibly redirect it back into your site.

We cannot generate lots of PR by creating lots of pages. Get more inward links!

You can dramatically affect the PR and search ranking of your internal pages. A page with one link to it will do less well than a page with many similar links to it.

#3 Jill

Jill

    Recovering SEO

  • Admin
  • 32,863 posts

Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:12 AM

QUOTE
Is is true that the more outbound links you have on a page, the less each one of those individual links is worth, (in terms of google page rank) because the "link juice" that is passed on from a page is weakened proportionately by the number of links the "juice" is divided between?


According to the original PageRank, yes, it's true. And it doesn't matter whether they go to external pages or internal ones.

But PageRank has been tweaked by Google over the years, so it's not as clear cut anymore.

QUOTE
Second question - Would this rationale apply if you had a site where at the bottom you had a group of related links that linked similar pages together, and this "group of links" appeared on everyone of those related pages? ie, does the theory of "reduced link juice" apply when there is reciprocal linking?


It applies to any link. Whether a link is reciprocal or not is irrelevant, imo.

#4 1dmf

1dmf

    Keep Asking, Keep Questioning, Keep Learning

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,160 posts
  • Location:Worthing - England

Posted 23 June 2009 - 08:19 AM

Ma4lMac where on earth did you get that formula from?

#5 Michael Martinez

Michael Martinez

    HR 10

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,013 posts
  • Location:Georgia

Posted 23 June 2009 - 06:12 PM

PageRank is a probability distribution. As such, its sum total cannot exceed 1.

"Link juice" is a silly SEO term that really has no meaning. Each search engine decides for itself what value a link passes to other documents. Some search engines may handle internal destinations differently from external destinations.

Google has openly talked about Trust, PageRank, and Anchor Text. They have not (so far as I can recall) discussed how they measure trust (please don't anyone dredge up the Yahoo! TrustRank paper).

PageRank, when passed from document to document, is a very minute, miniscule value between 1 and 0 (and most likely closer to 0 than to 1 for all documents that Google allows to accrue PageRank). Google actively filters many documents from its index AND actively blocks many links from indexed documents from passing PageRank. No one outside of Google knows how many "indexed" documents and links are not participating in Google's PageRank calculations. It's probably safe to assume the numbers for both documents and links are in the billions (Google claims to know about 1 trillion documents).

Outbound PageRank is indeed divided among outbound links, although Google recently disclosed that the division is no longer as cut and dried as the SEO community has assumed for the past 11 years.

Anchor Text is not exactly quantified. Some documents, however, pass complex Anchor Text and some documents pass simple Anchor Text. An example of complex Anchor Text would be an expression "A B C D E F" where the unique sub-expression "A C D F" could be used to find the destination document in Google's search results. An example of simple Anchor Text would be an expression "A B C D E F" where the destination document can only be found for that expression (and not any derivative of it) in Google's search results.

So some documents pass no Anchor Text, some documents pass simple Anchor Text, and some documents pass complex Anchor Text. In my opinion, the more (internal) PageRank a document has, the more value it is allowed to pass. But it may not be as simple as that.

For example, it could be there are lag times involved which complicate the process of passing Anchor Text. Or it could be that some documents are permitted to accrue Anchor Text faster than others. That may be related to Trust.

When it comes to Trust, I think most people assume that there is an "aging" aspect to how Trust is assigned. Google doesn't say much about Trust but Matt Cutts did indicate once that a very large site (Microsoft, I believe) tripped a trust filter by renaming hundreds of thousands of URLs. Seeing so many new URLs show up for one site, one of the Google trust filters kicked in and the site was penalized (until people brought the matter to Matt Cutts' attention -- he looked into it and got the trust restored).

Some people have suggested that certain types of velocity may be associated with Google's trust algorithms. How fast do you acquire links? How fast does your link profile grow (across multiple domains)? How long do your inbound links stay in place? How fast do the pages that link to your sites change or add links? etc.

There's really no way to know what is happening inside the search algorithms. What we do know is that many SEO fundamentalists who don't chase the algorithms do just fine by concentrating on the basic stuff.

The bottom line is pretty simple: You get two things to work with, links and content. Without the content you can neither make nor earn links, so content is more important than links. But you need both. As long as you create compelling content, you'll attract good links. There is nothing wrong with speeding the process of accruing links but some people go too far.


#6 rayjoy

rayjoy

    HR 3

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:18 PM

Dear mal4mac - I really appreciate your feedback. It will take me some time to get my brain around it, but I appreciate your input!
cheers!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

SPAM FREE FORUM!
 
If you are just registering to spam,
don't bother. You will be wasting your
time as your spam will never see the
light of day!