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52 replies to this topic

#16 Jill

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 07:22 PM

Hi Herbert,

Yep, we're just slightly more than a week old! Glad you found us. :D

If you really want to know about Google search keywords, your best bet is to do some Google Adwords testing.

But to get great ideas about related keywords and phrases, WordTracker is awesome!

Good luck!

Jill

#17 viz

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 08:33 PM

I use Wordtracker as part of my KW research process but often the results generated have me wondering just how representative their sample data is of most search engine users.

Wordtracker pulls its data from several Meta search engines & I suspect most users of Meta search engines are comparatively unsophisticated web users. If that's the case, then simply extrapolating this sample set to predict total daily searches across all searche engines the way Wordtracker does is flawed to some extent. Also WordTracker results are very American centric due to the Meta engines used.

Given the dominance Google has in search these days I think its also essential to do KW research using AdWords the way Dan suggests in his article.

#18 Mel

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 08:46 PM

Nice article Dan:
I use a similar technique to yours, first getting keyword suggestions from Wordtracker, then exporting all the keyphrases found there into a spreadsheet where they can be sorted by keyword categories which I assign, then going to a Google Adwords mini-campaign to verify the best phrases and which titles and descriptions convert best.
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but I firmly believe that keywords are the foundation of any successful SEO campaign, and the results are usually worth it.

#19 DanThies

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 09:01 PM

Thanks, Mel.

If the investment in SEO is worth it, then certainly it's worth getting the targeting/positioning down before you begin. We take the 'shotgun' approach early in the process, but it's very important to take that big list of candidate search terms and figure out what's really worth targeting.

Scottie, Teoma and Lycos also offer 'related' search term suggestions. "Good Keywords" has those built in. I didn't want to post a reply and mess up your resources thread.

#20 Scottie

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 09:32 PM

No no! Feel free to post a reply!

I'm hoping others will post any tools that they use as well.

#21 Mel

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 09:50 PM

Hi Dan:
Yes I have to agree with you there, and I realize I was not quite clear in how the spreadsheet analysis is important.

When you dump your 2-300 keywords into a spreadsheet, assign categories to the search terms and then sort by the categories and traffic you immediately get a clear idea of which are likely to be the best terms to use.

But when you put these best terms into the Google Adwords oven to bake for a week or so, the results are often not what you would expect.

#22 Jill

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Posted 30 July 2003 - 10:39 PM

Welcome, Mel and Vis! :aloha:

WordTracker is definitely not perfect. The results are not truly representative, but it's a great start, and with the other resources out there one can generally get a decent list of keyword phrases that people are actually searching on.

Jill

#23 donaldcroswell

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 12:03 AM

Hello All

I have found that Google's AdWords is the best to track key phrases that people use when looking for a product. For Example on my flower site, many more people search on Sydney Rose than on Sydney Flower (so I got more 'impressions' on the Sydney Rose key phrase). However, 4 times as many people who searched on Sydney Flower, appeared to be interested in actually going to a flower delivery site (so I got more 'clicks' on the Sydney Flower key phrase). This means to me that although Sydney Rose is searched on much more, Sydney Flower is a better search term for people looking to buy flowers.

Then use it in combination with Clicktracks or any other stat program to see what people who end up buying are using. These programs can track the referring URL and help pinpoint which key phrases are actually making it to the purchase page.

When you hold the two up together, you will see which phrases are used most by people who actually purchase your product.

Hope this is helpful.

Don :aloha:

#24 denver

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 12:16 AM

I guess I'm just a little concerned that no-one has yet mentioned the most sophisticated tool known to us: our own brains!

(OK, mine ain't that great, but . . . . . )

Anyway, it seems to me that if you make widgets, and you sell widgets, then you should have some idea of what the average widget buyer is looking for, and is likely to search for when they come to Google to find a supply of widgets.

If you don't have any idea . . . . well! - I suspect that no amount of search engine optimisation is going to save your business.

If you read Dan Thies' piece he offered earlier in this thread, you'll soon realise that, in order to construct the Google AdWords ads that he recommends, you have to have this basic level of insight to begin with anyway.

So, I thought it worth mentioning that there is no substitute for your own expertise in your business.

No amount of software can replicate your experience in running your business in the Real World ™.

Now it may be that everyone in this forum knows this so well that my mentioning it is embarrassingly redundant. If so, then I apologise.

:aloha:

#25 Scottie

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 12:20 AM

Welcome Denver! :aloha:

Excellent point! If you are not optimizing for your own business, the first place to start is quizzing the client and the client's customers about what they are most likely to type in a search field when looking for that type of business.

It's important to remember though, that people outside the industry (potential customers) may not be aware of the typical lingo that is used. That's where keyword research comes in... to find those terms people are already searching on.

#26 Mel

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 01:44 AM

HI Denver;
surprisingly, I find that oft times it is the site owners familiarity with their site and the keywords used in their particular industry that is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to traffic.

Bottom line, it is the terms the searchers are looking for when they want to find your site that is important, and if these terms match those you had in mind that is just great, but if not then you have discovered some valuable information to use both online and offline.

You simply cannot afford to make an assumption without research to back it up when it comes to building the foundations of your online business.

#27 denver

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 01:55 AM

Good points, Mel.

Thanks for the feedback. My email sig says "I have no monopoly on good ideas." I value all feedback, because feedback is what we steer ourselves by.

It wasn't so much familiarity with their site I had in mind, but with their customers, with their customers buying habits, and thought processes.

Obviously, there are new businesses cranking up all the time, but there are also an awful lot coming online who've got decades of history behind them.

Surely it's not unreasonable to expect them to have learned SOMETHING from that experience? To have taken SOME notice of the feedback their customers have given them in that time?

And if they haven't? Well, like I say, if they haven't then I strongly suspect that Search Engine Optimisation for them is like going to the dentist when you're having a massive myocardial infarction!

Of course, I could be really, totally, screwily, wrong.
:aloha:

#28 Mel

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 02:21 AM

Hi Denver:
Thats the beauty of doing the research, it will either validate your assumption or you will learn something new.

#29 denver

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 02:25 AM

Ouch!

:aloha: ;) :)

#30 Jill

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 03:28 PM

Welcome, Denver! :hmm:

Speaking of your sig...could you please cut it down to 2 lines? Scottie's about to implement a length change anyway, and it's going to chop it for you. (Please see the forum guidelines link at the top of the pages, for clarification.)

Thanks!

Jill




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